You are depressed, anxious, and have lost sight of what you want out of life. I don't know if kids are the bandage here. At the least, you need to figure out yourself before, or at least in parallel, to working on introducing young children into your family.

It's hard to offer specific advice on such a broad topic to a stranger. You've taken the right steps (therapy, counseling), but you have yet to find your inner peace. What do your social connections look like? Genuine social connection is usually highly correlated with happiness. Those connections can give you a sense of purpose (which is part of having kids) and a "place" in this growingly isolated world.

I'd start there, if you have not. Investing in people and in the relationships you have is absolutely critical to ones happiness. I'd be curious to hear more about how you see this part of your life.

It sounds very likely that even if you magically had a baby with your SO tomorrow, this would not be the "solution" you are looking for. Maybe it wouldn't be long until you feel the same level of regret over having had a kid, only now with an additional level of guilt.

Raising a child should be about the child first and foremost, not about you trying to resolve your existential crisis.

> Sometimes I fantasize about leaving my spouse, who I love to death, find someone who I can have a child with.

Forty is often that turning point in life where the end starts to look closer to the beginning. You have a lot more of your life to look back at and less to look forward to. We joke about mid-life crises, but they're a real thing.

The OP sure sounds to me like they're going through exactly that, and children have become a fixation.

And if they're struggling with anxiety and depression now, I can't imagine what they'd go through as a parent.

At minimum, they should not be making any decisions until they get a little healthier. First, it's very unlikely any decision they take, today, would be rational. And second, if they did choose to become a parent, they'd be doing so at a time when they're incredibly mentally and emotionally fragile, which is a recipe for disaster.

I'm not going to psychoanalyze someone by a single text message, but I also thought it was unusual to swing that hard. Probably the decision was not thought well and hence the regret, maybe the neighbors have beautiful babies and FOMO brings regret, maybe it's a mid-life crisis where we worry about our legacy, only they know.

I can only contribute my experience deciding not having kids. We both agreed to not have them, we're 50 now, the window has closed indeed for us, and we don't regret that decision at all. It's fantastic to age together and be the center of our own little family. What little need for forging a malleable mind is left, is fulfilled by the sporadic visits to/from our nephews and nieces.

Whatever OP does, I hope he doesn't do it on impulse. It's immensely better to regret not having kids, than regret having them.

It makes me laugh when people talk about having a "legacy"

99.999% of people are unremarkable. There are currently just over 1M Wikipedia articles about living people. Meanwhile, there are 7.7B people on the planet. Even if you made the incorrect assumption that all 1M were about living Americans, with the US population being nearly 330M, that means you'd have to be in the top 0.3% to even have a Wikipedia article about you.

Unless you become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or at least a state-level politician, or become a high-profile criminal, you will probably be forgotten entirely within three generations of your death.

It surprises me that some people have a hard time coming to terms with this.

Your children will have 1/2, or .5, of your DNA. Your grandchildren will have .25, great-grandchildren will have .125, then .0625....after 10 generations (about 300 years), your descendents will have 0.000977 of your DNA. After 30 generations (900 years) your descendents wil have 0.000000000931 of your DNA.

What kind of "legacy" are people thinking that they are leaving behind? All traces of your DNA will effectively disappear from all your progeny. You are gone, not a trace. Your DNA vanishes.

I might never have a wikipedia article about me, but at least I had kids and they will have kids and so on. Of course, I will eventually be forgotten (I don't know who my great great grandparents were) but if it weren't for them I would not be here today. One of the defs is " something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past".

It is something special. I have a kid now and another coming in the next few weeks. It is both the most time consuming and expensive thing I can do but also the most meaningful. I never thought I would feel this way 5 years ago. It is definitely dismissive to tell someone hey your feelings are rooted in other problems. It is not like OP is longing for a cupcake or something. So I support the OP and if it is really something you need, do it!

To OP: This opportunity can be leveraged even though it wasn't necessarily the situation you thought you would be in at this age. Life is funny that way.

The solution, then, is to figure out a way to achieve them.

This isn't to say that the OP is wrong, but rather that in their communication, they focused more on their longing than their parenting, implying that the want of parenting is more important to them than the parenting itself.

Consider also that this thread didn't come from a day's ponderings; it's a reaction to another article about how most of the time spent with children is before the child reaches 12 (as quoted in the OP). Such a trigger could suggest more fear-of-missing-out than inherent regret.

I never wanted to parent (that's simply a necessary constituent part), but I've always wanted to have kids, a family, a legacy, teach them, raise them, provide them a warm safe cozy family environment (that I remember from my childhood).

So far I'm very happy with the decision and 0% regret (only 10 months in though).

The key is to find out about yourself first, and only then decide what you want to do. If you have not found your inner peace yet, it is very difficult to make good life decisions.

My own background: self-harm and substance abuse. The key to leaving these things behind was to spend time doing hard work on myself. We all hate hearing this and I hated it too at first, but there is no way for things to get better without hard work. The miracle cure will never work, no matter how hard we wish.

I got a lot out of this Buddhist lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-jiIpcYMZw

Paraphrasing the video: a cure that works instantly without having to do any work is really a person saying "give me a drug that feels good forever."

In addition to the importance of a sense of community and purpose (whether derived from children or not), I'd also like to contribute another lens through which to view anxiety and depression.

Things like lack of exercise, poor sleep, nutrient deficiencies, caffeine/nicotine/alcohol abuse, under-exposure to sunlight and nature can all cause physiological cascades which result in depression and anxiety irrespective of ones life achievements or circumstances.

And yet, at least in my experience, when feelings of depression and anxiety are present, the first thought is of life circumstances. If only I had a better job, better spouse, loving children, fame, fortune, I would not be anxious and depressed.

It's all too easy to latch on to a perceived lack of something in your life and blame it for any and all of your negative emotions and moods.

Like most human beings, I struggle somewhat significantly with a few specific regrets from my past, as well as the anxiety of navigating important life decisions as they come up.

When I'm feeling particularly anxious or depressed my mind is more inclined to ruminate over past regrets, or to dread upcoming life events. If I'm not present, I still often fall into the trap of believing that I'm depressed and anxious BECAUSE of these regrets or upcoming circumstance in my life.

What I've learned though is that at least for me, it's helpful to first attribute feelings of anxiety and depression to core fundamental needs like sleep, exercise, nutrition, sunlight, etc rather than to jump to and ruminate over regrets and fears.

I suppose a way to refer to a framework like this would be something like 'physiological anxiety and depression' vs 'circumstantial anxiety and depression'.

I believe it is totally possible to have anxiety and depression caused by issues to do with sleep, nutrition, substance abuse, and for your brain to trick you into believing that you're unhappy with your life circumstances.

This all being said, I in no way want to downplay circumstantial anxiety and depression and insinuate that they are not real. It's vital to have things like purpose, community, and to be generally satisfied and excited about ones path through life.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-lon...

noteworthy quote from the article:

"The widely cited statistic that one in three women ages 35 to 39 will not be pregnant after a year of trying, for instance, is based on an article published in 2004 in the journal Human Reproduction. Rarely mentioned is the source of the data: French birth records from 1670 to 1830. The chance of remaining childless—30 percent—was also calculated based on historical populations.

In other words, millions of women are being told when to get pregnant based on statistics from a time before electricity, antibiotics, or fertility treatment."

Definitely check with doctors OP, if this is something y'all truly want. I have friends around your age who are happily playing and traveling with their toddlers. They'll be older for some life events but also more settled (financially and emotionally) than I ever was at my kid's young ages.

Not trying to give false hope, it just reads like you personally decided something was true but that may not be the case. It does read like you may want to talk with someone, it is extremely helpful if only for voicing your ideas similar to here, most therapy folks I've known are very relaxed and just there to listen/help. Best of luck.

There’s the small matter of my husband hitting retirement age about the same time our Überraschungsei hits university, but hopefully post-secondary in Germany will continue to mostly be living expenses.

Hope you will still have luck, but in the meantime - sorry if it sounds harsh but seems like quickest way to communicate it - if you are not ok with yourself and with your life, I don't think you want to have kids.

It's like a polish proverb regarding relationships: don't try to find a girl who will make you happy, find the happiness within yourself and then some girl will find that.

If you cannot make it ok with yourself without kids I don't think it's a situation which you want to put them into. Seriously, there are many things that you cannot change about the world and about your kids. Being able to accept reality seems useful.

Also I've talked with quite a few people whose parents were all about kids - that was all they wanted from life. And these people as kids (as adults too) were kind of lost. Because if my parents only care about their children, what is there to care about in life? Should I also make kids ASAP and care about them? I mean, it is our biology but it's also a vicious circle.

Other than that you have some options, adoption, some other woman can carry it for both of you etc.

I wish you all the best.

The idea that we must perfect ourselves before we enter a relationship with others is common in internet advice and frankly wrong. One of the main ways we heal and grow as people is through relationships. Relationships test us and can be a vital mirror, showing us things that would be otherwise invisible. They are also an incentive to do better for the good of others in our lives. Finally, they give us the chance to heal others similarly, our partners are never perfect either.

Does that mean that having kids will solve your problems? Of course not. The idea that you should be ok with or without kids is also fraught. It’s a question of degree, perhaps being obsessed with having kids is bad, but wanting them and being disappointed in not having them is fine.

Ok when they give consent like your spouse. The to be born kid did not. Kids are not anyone's property to experiment with. You should not force a 3rd parson (the kid) without their consent into your life if you are not mentally and physically well. Do whatever you want with your own life that does not involve unwilling subject.

Personally, I would not wish to be born to someone who is struggling, which will make me suffer later. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

I think what people are trying to say is that if you want to become a parent you should be capable of providing the child with a good childhood. That’s an admirable goal but answering that question is exceedingly tricky.

You don’t need to perfect one thing to do something else. Nor does getting your ducks in a row on one thing guarantee you’ll be better off in another.

Sometimes you hurl yourself into the fire and you get burned. Sometimes you hurl yourself into the fire and you figure out everything else because you did it.

I know several once lost and now successful adults who found their drive and focus in the moment they held their first child in their arms. Others who, like you said, are still lost.

If you want to have kids, have kids. You’ll figure it out. Sometimes you won’t. Don’t sit around and wait for the optimal circumstance and opportunity. If there is an opportunity, take it. It may never come again.

The issue many people have with this line of reasoning is that not figuring it out affects an unwilling participant (the kids).

The most common sentiment I hear is that people want their kids to have at least the quality of life that they did when they were kids, and without a reasonable guarantee of achieving that, they will not choose to have kids.

For some, it might be that the kid does not have to work in the farm fields all day. For others, maybe the kid gets to learn how to read and write. And others, the kid does not have to work at all and gets to go all the way through high school. For others yet, the kid needs to have their own bedroom. And so on.

No. Kids are not your property to experiment with. You should not force a 3rd parson (the kid) without their consent into your life if you are not mentally and physically well. Do whatever you want with your own life that does not involve unwilling subject.

Personally, I would not wish to be born to someone who is struggling, which will make me suffer later. Most people only care about consent when it's them, not others and even refuses.

Ok, but let's admit it, this doesn't work universally. I know people who become much more happier after finding their partner.

Also, I have one kid, and yes, I am more happy with life after having it.

When or if these people get divorced or widowed they will be a bigger mess than they have ever been.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33301496

Sometimes what people lack in life is purpose, and giving your best loving gift to others is one heck of a purpose. That being said the OP is going to be in a similar boat in 13-20yrs time (depending on how independent and/or peer bonded their child becomes)-- so finding longer life purpose will become important again, but being given ~15yrs to find it out just might be enough to span the gap.

Damn - I've never thought about it this way, but this resonates tremendously with my personal experience. Thanks for the little morning dose of insight.

First, the bad news: lots of comments saying stuff like "Don't have kids to fill a perceived hole in your life". In general, the advice "Don't do ____ to fill a hole in your life" is good for frivolous things, but I don't think this applies to being a parent. Parenting is a biological and psychological life milestone. To me it's felt more like leveling up my maturity than buying or achieving something. An analogy is something like going from relying on my parents to moving out and being independent. I realize this step isn't for everyone, but am skeptical about 95% of ppl so confident they don't want to take a step their linage has done for thousands of years.

Second, the good news: my experiences (and accounts of friends as well) suggests that attachment to a child is less biological and more developed than you'd expect. When my daughter was born she felt like a stranger; I didn't know her. The more time I spend with her, the more she learns and depends on me, and the more I grow emotionally attached to her. This suggests you'd get 98% of the parenting experience through adoption vs being a biological parent. You'd miss out on stuff like "o wow her eyes look like mine", but at least in my experience, this has been less important than I would've thought. The big stuff like seeing them learn, their innocent joy, and you 'paying it forward' in the circle of life would be the same. (NOTE: these are my 2 cents as a biological parent. It'd be worth reading some adoptive parent accounts as well). Also, if adoption is not for you, I'd still recommend getting involved in helping kids in some way (education, financial, etc.); again, what are we here for if not to help the next generation?

I know your kid(s) are going to be raised well.

I think "helping people" as a general rule is a part-proxy to raising kids.

We found this too, and my wife felt validated by this article she found recently:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/oct/10/the-big-idea-w...

Allow me to disagree. First: there's no evidence of any change in your body, as a male, after becoming a father.

Second: supposing such a "wireless" change would happen, getting someone pregnant and immediately disappearing from their life would yield a perceptible change even with distance and no involvement with the life of the child.

Third: I personally think there's no innate drive to parent, and only an innate drive to mate; everything else is injected by society.

For this context, I think trying to make these distinctions is a distraction. By way of common sense, reproducing & parenting has been a HUGE factor in the propagation of human life (this is so obvious it's kind of funny to write).

So basically you don't want to have a discussion that might make you reconsider your belief.

i strongly suspect that it's the act of actively becoming a parent, whether biological or adoptive that is responsible for that change in hormones

To me, this makes sense, given how unusual the new skillset has to be compared to pre-fatherhood life (manipulations with the newborn, deciphering needs, new attetion patterns etc.).

[1] Mentioned in the book by Stanislas Dehaene, "Consciousness and the Brain", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_and_the_Brain

It's not too late.

You have discovered it is the most important thing to you.

So do it. Do it.

Take the actions needed to do what you want to do. And if you choose not to take those actions, or if you find it too hard to take the needed actions within the needed timeframe, then be content with not having kids.

To be brutally frank, it's likely that one day you will part with your current wife, and then you will have neither child nor wife. Take action to have a child - explain to your wife how you feel - if she wants to take that journey with you, great, if she doesn't then you both know that things have changed.

But act quick, because time is against you. You will be physically capable of having kids for many years to come, but every year past 40 it make less sense for a variety of reasons.

I only had one child, for which I am eternally grateful. I deeply wish I had more than one, for which I am eternally regretful. I left it too late to have more.

Kids are the best thing in the universe, and indeed for me personally, the very reason for living. I wish I had known that sooner in life.

And when you go onto the dating websites, be right up front about your situation. "I'm 40, I'm looking for a woman to have kids with fairly soon." Choose a good and kind trustworthy woman who you think would be a good mother. Make sure you bring the same things to the party. You don't need a perfect relationship. There are many women out there in exactly the same boat as you. Don't spend years not finding the perfect person. Find a good person on the same wavelength, get on the job.

Be open to the idea of having kids with someone simply on the basis that you both want kids - start out separated and then do a great job of co-parenting as a mum and dad who were never "together" in the first place.

Post again on HN in two years and tell us the name of your baby, if you are so blessed.

To raise kids (in a responsible good manner), you need a long-lasting stable relationship with parents that are trustworthy and on the same wavelength.

OP is currently in a relationship with his wife whom he loves dearly. But regarding kids they don't seem to be on the same wavelength (on one particular topic, they probably agree on many other things), because he regrets decisions they made in the past.

Why will his situation improve by giving up the relationship and becoming less trustworthy? 5 years down the roads, in a new relationship, he or his new wife will decide their wavelengths changed, and it's time to look for someone else. And then 2 small kids will have to cope with the fall-out.

Divorcing someone you love, with the intents of starting a stable relationship with someone else is self-deceit. Kids deserve better than that.

Well it would be ideal but lots of kids have separated parents.

What is important is not that the parents are together, but that everyone is safe, the kids are loved, the parents are respectful towards one another. The greater the kindness and cooperation between separated parents, the better it is for kids.

Critically important is that the kids are not exposed to conflict between parents.

If you can get all that right then even kids with separated parents can be pretty happy I think.

It may be increasingly common and I’d agree it’s better to separate than stay together for the kids but I do believe it has a lasting impact. It’ll affect the way they see relationships for the rest of their lives.

It’s selfish for people in their late 30s / early 40s to rush into having a family because they’re worried the window will close.

Also this is an extremely western centric mindset. iirc the literature indicates that having 2 responsible well caring adults is a much better goal. That could simply be an Uncle and Grandma. If OP has a community/network of good people then it's ok if He/Wifey are not perfect.

> It's not too late.

I second that. A (male) friend of mine was 40 when they had their first child and now they have three.

More importantly: 39 is probably not too late biologically for your partner. A lot has changed over the last 20 years for late births.

Find a doctor who's competent and supportive to help you along, you're not the first people to have children at that age.

Turn your regret into a motivator. I've done a lot of different and exciting things in my life, I've lived on three different continents, worked with some of the smartest and most renowned people in their fields, and yet nothing beats the experience of loving your children.

Good luck.

There's still a lot of risks, particularly of disappointment, but also massively elevated risk of gestational diabetes and Down syndrome.

What about the risk of forever regretting that you didn't even try? Everyone has to decide for themselves what level of risk they are ok with (I'm not going to do base jumping, for instance :D), but if you want a "safe" life, you have to stay indoors, live like a hermit, and forego all human contact ;)

You hear things like this all the time. I think the people with this type of mindset are more vocal. But it is not a universal truth.

On the other side of the curve:

There are people who love and care for their dogs more than their children. I've heard people say this with honest tears running down their face.

There are people who completely abandon their children for many reasons, sometimes mental illness, sometimes not. Sometimes mental illness triggered by the additional burden of the child.

There are people who literally kill themselves after having children. It's extreme, but it's a fact. Obviously it's not the child's fault, but definitely not "best thing in the universe" for these people.

Children can be wonderful. They can also ruin you.

I absolutely understand the vicious and cyclical nature of what I'm saying, but half the time people feel like you go on to have kids and then discover that feeling of emptiness was just them all along. Having children can just as much separate and ostracise you from your existing life and social circles, and make things worse. So if you do have kids and it turns out you have a deeper depression, it's not the best environment to introduce somebody who needs all your attention, every day for a few years. It's not fair to the children.

You're 40 and you're not enjoying your work. Fix that first. It's a struggle many have, even parents. Honestly, life as a whole makes a lot more sense when you enjoy what you do every day, when you feel appreciated and see value in your work product.

Once you're grounded, you can look at options. Surrogacy might be an option for a biological or semi-biological match. Consider your partner's feelings in this too. Fostering might be the best on-ramp, but you're not going to be handed a kid to care for unless you're in top condition.

If you're setting that as a goal, make sure you consider that becoming happy with life might take a while, and it might take so long children stop being an option altogether. Make sure you don't tie yourself to a post if you're unsure which way the tide's going. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Don't let it get in the way of your enjoyment of life.

Best of luck.

But so is having kids when you're in your twenties compared to having them when you're mid-midlife crisis in your forties.

I'm not a doctor or psychiatrist, plus this is only a single post on a web forum, so I can't say for certain whether that's the case

I think you need to address the pattern of thought you're describing and that it would be helpful for you to talk to a mental health professional to see if they can provide some relief to you

A first step could be to simply tell your spouse "I think I have a depression and I would like to get better. Would you be okay helping me with that?". Make yourself accountable to the people you love and care about to take the actions needed to get better

Depression is treatable and you can start feeling happy about your life again, I promise you!

I hope you find a way to get through this difficult place that it seems you're finding yourself in

You have been in the two extremes of parenting. From deciding not to have kids to miserably missing the kids you didn't have.

So, my question is: Is this really about having/not having kids, or is it some kind of existential crisis projected in the absence of kids in your life?

I don't know why, but your story made me think of volunteering. Have you considered it? Might give you a sense of motivation and meaning.

Also, since you seem to be in a fragile state right now, very regular outdoors or not-at-home exercise might be a good way to get mental balance.

I think that you can't really examine your out of a fundamental drive. You can't scratch the itch by asking "what for" any more than you could convince yourself that the fire wasn't burning you by contemplating why your hand hurt when you put it in the fire. Most people just want to reproduce as an end goal to itself.

All this said - I tend to think OP's problem is more psychological / depression as others have commented. If it were truly a strong desire to have children than OP would have simply figured out a way (adoption, in vitro, getting with another woman, surrogate, etc). Instead, it might just be a manifestation of depression - which is why OP just suffers from the desire rather than attempting to fulfill it.

It's a problem to label something a fundamental drive, because you're implicitly saying that someone experiencing it is powerless. What if it's not fundamental? You think so, but you might be wrong. Let's just call it a desire.

Btw, kids on paper being a bad deal is a bold statement. For thousands of years that was the primary way of investment. Between the ages 13 and 16 a child on a farm would return all investment required up to that point.

And, as for biology, I'd say that the primary differentiator of the human animal is just how flexible it is in the face of desires such as this.

Note that I'm not downplaying the seriousness of your situation by calling it a mid-life crisis - the mid-life crisis is real as fuck and it's a force to be reckoned with. I think the trick of it is to redirect that angst and energy into something useful. Rather than wreck your marriage and run off with 27 year old, maybe you should try an entirely new career, or get into volunteer work, or take a 6 month sabbatical. Who knows? In any case, be very careful of what bridges you burn. I'll let you know if I figure it out...

To some extent, my brother in-law's experience helped me get through mine because I was able to join the dots and identify my mental bullshit as coming from the same place as his, and try to avoid making the same mistakes.

Not only biologically but also There are thousands of younger 30ish women who'd see 0 problem have a kid with a mature 40 y.o. (rather than a 30 y.o. whos head is not there yet)

Of course you probably wont have the same relationship with your wife but thats your life, not hers. And if you wake up with panic attacks over kids you HAVE to do it or youll never forgive yourself in 10 / 20 years.

And if you feel guilty about reversing your decision to be childless, think that same way that you can give and take back consent any time, you have the right to change your mind anytime.

Marriage was invented when there was no contraception and life expecancy was half of what it was now.. No one should be miserable for the sake of "being married".

Invented is such a terrible word. It was a contract. And within that contract was a place for love to grow without the idea the person was going to leave. And within that love was a place for family.

Today some celebrate the inverse. Have family. Then love. Then marry. Then divorce. And leaves little to no safe place for any of the above.

The OP regrets not having children. His younger self made that decision. He is not too old to go and have kids with someone else or adopt (say as a single dad even).

Go have kids man! If your wife doesn't want to then get divorced. If she does then work together. IVD, adoption etc...

You remain faithful to the contract, or you are violating the contract in bad faith.

There’s no requirement to give a reason or even have a reason to end a marriage.

In some case yes. "Hope for the best, plan for the worst as people say".

Marriage is between adults and life expectancy for adults was nearly the same as it is now.

I would expect HN to know that life expectancy in earlier times was suppressed due to child mortality.

Marriage is not some form of slavery. It's painful to have dissolved... But very doable if the situation is bad enough.

Now the problem with op, is that it appears he is depressed and burnt-out, and is transferring the depression to a biological drive for children. To do this would be unhealthy for everyone, including any children they bring in the world.

In PARTICULAR, wanting or not children is probably the n°1 important criteria to be in a relationship or not. Im not telling him to leave his wife but its an option that is very likely to appear, and also that "staying because of past decision to your wife" might bring more pain to him on the long run than leaving her to have a child. Its a purely rational decision (which of course is not to be rushed either).

People (like you?) seem to believe in the "soulmates for life" dream but practical experienxe has shown me its not for everybody and many people end up miserable by saying in the same relationship out of principles or fear while they had so many good other options at some point..

Choose wisely.

Others have pointed out that it's not necessarily too late biologically for a woman at 39 and I'd add my own experience to that - my wife had our children at 38 and 41, and we had no issues with either conception or pregnancy. So don't assume it's impossible.

If you are in a place where she doesn't want children now and you do though then that puts your relationship in a very difficult place and perhaps you should try couples counseling if you haven't already. If she's open to looking after children but doesn't want to (or can't) go through a pregnancy then there are other options like surrogacy or adoption which might be open to you. A good couples counselor should be able to help you discuss this in a way which is safe both of you.

As far as other people saying that children won't fill that void in your life - they could be wrong. I felt similar to what you describe, albeit much younger than the average new parent, and having a child did fill that need. That said, it brought up a new feeling of regret of having a child too young.

If you don't have children, it's not the end of the world. A child is fun, and I have had many giggles with mine, but I also have missed out on a lot of opportunity for pursuing and exploring passions that could also fill that hole. Given the added stress of and time consumed with children, I don't think I will have another. My husband and I have collectively agreed about the things that are important to us in life, and they are infinitely harder with a child.

All that to say, you know what choice is right for yourself and you still have time to make that choice.

Why do you have anxiety? Why do you want kids? Why would you rather get cancer than not have a kid? Without some answer or investigation of these, we probably can't give you good advice. And these questions should be something your therapist is helping you explore already.

"I used to LOVE working and all things tech, now just make do and do bare minimum to not get fired. I 've gotten few promotions here and there but nowhere near my potential of where my career could've been. Everything is just secondary, nothing is interesting."

This can happen to people because they had kids too.

Is she on board though? If not, you don't need to stay with her. Your goals in life are worth more, and you don't want to resent her for the rest of your life "you're the reason I don't have kids and I regret it always"

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/cdc-birth-rates-middl...

Some people are made for different purposes than the biological default activity. People can live great lives and never be in an (exclusive) relationship with any partner. People can do great work and advance humanity a little bit. They can be experts in their area of expertise and that can be already more valuable to society than another child.

Of course there are many sources of pressure or stereotypes all around us, suggesting to us, that a family is the ultimate thing to achieve and that we will all be perfectly happy if only we start a family.

A good friend of mine started a family and his stress levels are through the roof. Barely has time in his day to take care of anything else than children and work. So basically work^2.

Many people will also tout, that making a family was the best thing they ever did. However, studies show, that people are not necessarily happier after having kids and one explanation for this is, that it is not socially accceptable usually, to say things like: "Ah getting children was a mistake, I wish I had not done that.". People will paint you as asocial or worse, if you say those things. Also people need to justify their own past decisions to themselves and might really believe, that it was the best decision they made.

Aside from all that, adoption is still an option one can try. There are so many children in this world, who would benefit from being adopted, possibly becoming bright members of society. If you think you can love children, even if they are not of your own seed, then do consider adoption. I have a hunch, that it is not the making of a child, but its upbringing and the work invested in that, that makes parents love their children. It might also skip some of the most stressful times children go through. Of course adoption is not a thing done in a day. There are requirements.

I don't think that is true. I think most people will say that having kids was the best thing in their life because it truly feels that way to them. Seeing your child growing up is work, but it's absolutely magical and most people don't see it as unpleasant work. Everything in life can be labelled as work, but just as we agree that working on your own business is a different kind of work than going to an office 9-5 every day we also know that the work that is required to raise a child isn't the same as the work which we normally associate negative feelings with.

Besides, studies have shown that people with children live longer and not only that, people who become grandparents live considerably longer as they get new purpose and life injected into them, so I assume there is somewhere a strong correlation between having children and being happy.

Moreover, judging ones' life through a lense of "being valuable to society" is pretty depressing. Human beings are not lawnmowers, we're not meant to be useful/provide value. Life is much more interesting and mysterious than that.

1. Talk to a doctor and see if your wife would be able to bear a child. If doctor approves and your wife is ok with it, give it a shot. If you wife is not ok with having to go through a pregnancy in that age (which is totally understandable), then try #2.

2. If you are stuck on an idea of biological children you could try finding a surrogate mother who will bear your child for you. As far as I understand it is your sperm and your spouse's eggs are used, so the child will have your genes. This might be expensive, but is a good solution. Again, talk to a doctor about this possibility. Perhaps during the same visit as #1.

3. If for whatever reason, #2 is not an option, there is another option, which I honestly think should go as #2. Adoption. There are a lot of kids that have been abandoned by there parents. It is always heartbreaking to think about their lives. There are of course a lot of things to consider, but in the end I think it will be a win-win situation for all parties involved.

I'm sure there are more options that I didn't think about, so don't think that life is over. Kids or no kids, you will find a way to add meaning to your life. There is no need to leave your wife or get bad diseases, regardless of the outcome.

Just remember that everything will be fine.

So, talk to your wife, talk to your therapist, and anyone else you trust. Make sure you will be happy with your life, whether you have kids or don't and only then try having them.

Don't forget, that after your kids have grown up, they will go on to live their own lives and it will be just you and your spouse left. So make sure you have a good relationship with her.

Source: my wife worked on the fertility clinic of an NHS hospital during her training and was fascinated by how easily this whole thing works and how far we've come to help struggling couples to get children.

EDIT:

Sorry I wanted to add one more thing. There are some quick suggestions floating around here that you could just find a new partner. I don't think that is as easy as people say. It takes time to build an emotional connection with someone strong enough for both people wanting to create kids together. You might waste another 2 years of your life to just find that person if not longer.

Also... unless your spouse is dead against children it's just plain disrespectful to her. She is also a human being who deserves happiness and you guys have found each other and if you love her and she is also open to having kids now then you should definitely try to have kids with her. Imagine you have a daughter one day who is 40 years old with a partner that wants kids. You wouldn't want that guy to treat your daughter the way others suggest here. Also, fathering children is a process, we don't like talking about it but there are many things which can go wrong. If I was you I wouldn't want to go through any painful issues with someone who I just met recently. If you and your spouse love each other you can support each other through whatever happens. That is important as well.

That said, are you sure you are otherwise ok? What you write sounds like you may be dissatisfied of your current life in other dimensions as well as not just "having kids". Please don't get kids just as a bandaid, if the motivation is that your life sucks and you imagine getting kids will make your life better - because it likely wont.

Speaking from experience - especially dreaming of an easy way out (I wish I had cancer) sounds like you may have mental health issues. When I was into clinical depression I used to dream of getting a disease and dying out. I really suggest you talk to a professional about these feelings.

It isn't too late, biologically speaking, and wont be for a few years yet. In VHCOL coastal cities it is not unusual at all for couples to have first children at your age or a little later. But if you're burnt out at your job and having panic attacks walking by playgrounds you aint ready.

I am a parent of kids with a genetic disease (cystic fibrosis). It is very difficult, and we had to make many changes in our life to accommodate the special requirements. But it has also led us into brand new directions we never would have even conceived of. And, of course, our kids are a constant joy, regardless of the troubles.

At 47yo, I can relate... I have been married a couple times, and do have step-children. I sometimes grieve that I didn't get the chance to go through the earlier years with someone. At this point, I'm definitely not in a position to deal with very young children. I think it would have been nice to put more efforts into this while I was younger.

I would suggest finding a good place to do some volunteer work, which can help with getting past the funk and bringing some fulfillment into your life. Maybe seek counselling regarding any particular depression.

How do we cope?

I was a school teacher and now being a tutor has given me some interaction with teens. I am grateful for this.

My wife loves animals. I think our pets have given her something to cuddle and care for.

I think the only bonus to not having had kids is that we have missed out on the pain that friends have gone through when their child has died through an accident or health problem.

Either adopt or figure out what do you expect from life, deep down. Then think about what you will expect at different stages as you age. Remember that you have changed expectations radically at least once. Self-change is a good thing, forget about integrity and focus on your desires.

You will die alone, most likely. Virtually all old people in retirement homes are disappointed by the lack of visits from their offspring.

We all mourn our lost childhood when we lose curiosity and playtime as we age. Having kids is one way to partially relive your childhood, and on the other side you get to be a mentor to someone who will actually listen to you, most of the time. These two things for example can also be fulfilled in different ways than having kids.

I wrestle with this as well sometimes. I see myself turning into a Picard type, focusing on my work, my mentoring, my stoic demeanor, and being a secret, blubbering mess once a year when I see a Christmas tree in the neighbor's window. Then I'll tuck my shirt down, tell myself there's no time for such nonsense, and carry on.

A trick I use to fall asleep, when it's really getting to me, is to consider that there's a very good chance my hypothetical kid would be a jerk that doesn't like me.

To be honest, this sounds like a mid-life crisis. Which is just another way of saying FOMO. We cannot do everything we dream of doing, we will not achieve every measure of success, there are absolutely going to be things you could have done but did not (for perfectly valid reasons!). Some of them you can do later, some you have to just accept are gone forever.

1. Get some feedback from professionals about whether you are mentally healthy enough to make important decisions. If not, try to get healthy before proceeding. But the default will be for them to tell you to wait and see, which closes options for you and your wife. If you get the feeling they don't really care about you and they are just giving the easy answer ("another decade of therapy at $100/hr, then ask me again"), seek another opinion or try to assess the situation yourself. Everyone has some mental issues and sometimes you need to move on with your life.

2. If you believe children are right for you, talk to your wife and bring her for counseling. If she's not on board and doesn't get there quickly, consider whether you are really right for each other. You have 40 more years together. Divorces are easier without kids, and if she doesn't want kids, then she hasn't "wasted" her child-bearing years on you, so there will be less pain.

3. If she's on board, go to a fertility doctor without delay, even while still trying naturally.

4. If it doesn't work, then you have to consider what to do next. Sometimes, trying and failing gives you a new outlook, and you'll value the relationship you have with your wife more, and move on with other meaningful pursuits. But also perhaps not, and you may still need to consider starting over with someone else. But there's a risk you will end up alone or with a bad marriage, which is pretty common.

5. Consider religion in your life regardless of what happens.

It's a conscious choice: You can use IVF / adoption other means to have kid(s) but be aware that once you take the decision of having kid(s), you can't really go back even if you feel helpless,anxious etc:)

Signed, Dad of two kids

Why it is important not to have children. https://stallman.org/articles/children.html

Another opinion is that nothing matters, in the end, our sun will die and and all life will stop existing. So arguing about whether to have kids or not, is waste of time. Do as you like. But then again... What about the journey?

The discussion can go on and on, in the end, it comes down to opinion.

I don’t have kids and don’t plan to. I know my partner is more interested, but not interested enough to actually have kids. I know we love each other deeply, but if they wanted a family and I absolutely didn’t, then love would be to help then find that, even if it wasn’t with me. For however incredibly painful that would be, I just can’t imagine preventing someone I love from something so foundational.

And ya know, it’s the 21st century so monogamy is not the only socially acceptable available arrangement for people who love each other.

You really need to start talking to your partner about this. It’s dishonest to withhold it.

Quit complaining and focusing on the past get to work trying to have fucking kids! Stop wasting time on HN and go start spending that energy to try and get your partner pregnant.

Plenty of women have kids up into their late 40s. This woman had 3 after 40.

https://www.todaysparent.com/pregnancy/pregnancy-health/i-ha...

You need someone to kick you in the ass to get your mind in the right place. I know plenty of women who have had healthy children at 45. Get off your computer and go get laid.

2. Adoption is always an option.

3. Become a "big brother" or do some other kind of youth mentoring or teaching.

If your wife is not interested in kids of any kind, then #3 is your only option if you're going to stick together, and maybe mentoring and/or teaching is what you really want to do.

Alternatively, you can consider adopting a kid which will give you the exact same dad feelings.

Nothing to regret yet, just do it!

Trust me, you don't have any idea. You can't tell that until both you and your kids are dead.

Starting from the moment when your wife gets pregnant, when something strange shows up during the examination, through the trauma of birth, then colics, the first major illness when you have to spend nights with your kid in a hospital. If you are lucky, you never have to deal with anything more grave. But this is a random game. There is no guarantee your kid won't become the cause of your biggest worries in your life.

Barring that, fostering is a possibility, but the requirements to do so and the ease of it vary on where you are. Fostering is not something to enter into lightly, but it seems to be highly rewarding. I have a friend adopting the child she fostered, it wasn't always easy, but she's very happy.

Good point about IVF.

2. There is adoption and fostering, it’s seriously important

3. I’d unpack this with your wife and a therapist and not HN. Kids don’t fix what is broken, they amplify it. Further, if things aren't right, you’re not only screwed up but you can screw them up. ‘Expectation’ is kind of a dirty word for marriages and families, if you’ve made choices and expected things to be different you have to be open to the idea that your expectations weren’t yours to have, there are other people involved and you love them and want them to be what they are and not your idea or fantasy of what they should be. If the idea of it having kids was to live a certain way (travel, have money, etc..) Understand that kids are a never ending life of service, but it feels good.

It sounds like a classic midlife crisis. The good news is, we don't have to do all those things our families and cultures conditioned us to strive for. We can be happy without all of that.

First, having kids is THE BEST thing I ever did with my life. Your mileage could/may vary.

Assuming you can get your spouse on-board:

1) YOU ARE NOT PAST THE WINDOW! My wife was 40 when we had our first kid. 41 for the second. Many other parents at our kids' school are similar. Some used IVF, others did not. IVF, while unpleasant, is covered by many insurance plans.

2) As others have said, you can foster, adopt or use a surrogate.

If you cannot get your spouse on-board for trying something, then you might consider leaving them. My ex-wife and I had been trying (then 30M, 28F) without success. Our inability to conceive was one of the reasons that I left her. She now has kids with another man and I now have kids with another woman, so it all worked out. I know this is rough, but it is also a possible solution.

Good luck and I'm sorry that you are suffering.

I had my first kid at 37, so it isn't too late for you.

Having kids DEFINITELY isn't rosey. Easily, the most challenging thing I've ever faced. What you write about anxiety, panic attacks, etc. I've had all those things and attribute them directly to the life choices I've had to make since having kids. Having kids means you are subject to scrutiny as a parent like nothing you have ever experienced as a software developer, especially from people close to you, your spouse, her/his parents, extended family.

I would say: get a life coach. You could have kids if you wanted to, but are probably blocked from it beyond just the circumstances. If you go down that path, you'll figure that why, and even if you don't have kids, you'll find why you do or don't want to be happy.

1) You and your spouse most likely can still have children assuming you two are in reasonable health with no serious fertility issues; age is less of an issue with today's medical tech. My spouse and I had our first child at a simlar age to you two.

2) Sounds like you have burnout/depression/something-else. Consider getting help from a professional (therapist)?

3) For me, parenthood is cool, tiring, and rewarding, but definitely not an endpoint of personal fulfillment. With all the socio-cultural changes of our times, our sense of self, identity, and value should enrich our families, and not be predicated upon society's value towards being a giving/sacrificing parent unit.

Seriously, whatever you think of kids, one thing is absolutely true: it's hard, it's very hard. Not in a poetic sense, but simply in terms of man-hours you will have to come up with.

Unless you live in a traditional patriarchal society, but if this were the case, you would probably have had several kids by now

Not necessarily. My wife was in her late 30s when we had our (and her, and my) first kid, and just shy of 40 when we had our second. Yes, older mothers are at somewhat-greater risk of things like Down's Syndrome, but both our kids are now in their early 30s, quite-normal adults with S.O.s of their own.

So talk to your wife — and (as Dear Abby always says) also talk to a licensed mental health professional as well: As others have noted, you might well have something else going on that you're interpreting as regret over childlessness.

There are many ways to “have kids.” But know this: no one outside of you can fix what’s happening inside of you. The feeling of loss and envy you are experiencing may not be what it appears. Often times our brains disguise painful thoughts we are unwilling to experience as something else. This might be a good time to talk things through with a therapist or a best friend or at least someone with whom you can open up.

And it's also not fair to the first.

I am sorry to hear that. 40/39 isn't actually too late, but risks are higher. Adoption is a big deal, and I know many "late bloomers" that have gotten married in their 30s and 40s (sometimes, for the second or third time), and adopted, or had kids.

I never had any biological children, but I married a woman with a daughter, so I have a stepdaughter.

Regrets? A bit, but not that much. It's a long story, but I have extracurricular interests that probably exercise some of the emotions and drives that parents of biological children have.

FWIW, our decision was not easy ( and, frankly, from my perspective unnecessarily risky, but I am willing to accommodate my partner where it makes sense ). The only real benefit of doing it when you are old is that you go into it with your eyes wide open typically knowing full well the amount of sacrifice needed for it. I don't think having kids was a mistake, but life would have been a lot easier w/o them. Ditto with the dog.

That said.. should the dog die, odds are we will be getting another one shortly thereafter.

Do you want good reasons to not have kids?

- The future for them does not look promising at all

- Enjoy your life and travel anywhere, change job anytime, change location any moment

- Sleep whenever you want

- Use any drugs you want (even just weed is an issue with kids under 18)

- Start any hobby or job any time you want

- Buy an house without be worried to be homeless

- No guilt for be responsible of their life, of any problem they face, any transmitted genetic issue you may find later on

- If you have no family or relatives or friends to make your kids know, share and play with, it's pretty much like not having kids at all

Many people have no kids and still can't simply change their job, location, travel or buy a home.

If your wife doesn't want kids, I'm afraid that you will have to make a difficult decision either way. But, you can still become the cool uncle if there are kids in your family: take them to trips, attraction parks, movies,... and offer the parents a deserved break.

I don't know if this is a possibility for you and your partner, but if you want children in your life, maybe they are there already and would appreciate you being a bigger part of their lives? Uncles, aunts, nieces, and nephews are amazing. Often times very close.

Giving up on having kids and staying with your partner, trying to cope with regret. I bet the regret alreay takes a toll on the relationship and the probability is high that the relationship ends in a divorce either way. (Divorce statistics in your region?)

Divorce and find a younger and religious woman ready to have many kids. You might lose some friends and people might turn away considering your behavior selfish. But you would gain a family and that would be your world.

It is not too late to correct a mistake.

OP said that he dearly loves his wife. I think that's marvelous and he should treasure that. Divorce would indeed be selfish behavior, as you recognize. And that's not where you find happiness and a fulfilling life.

(Aside: your attempt to make the suggestion colorful by adding that the woman should be religious is quite weird. For many religious people, selfishness and divorce are not things that make a partner attractive.)

I used to downplay it and together with my partner tried to find a way.

Anyway, this sounds like a relationship issue. If your partner does not want kids it's possible that some kind of decision is needed (that's what our couples therapist said which turned out to be real good advice in my case).

If she can't have kids - there are other ways like adoption,...

If this is impacting you as much as it sounds - find a way to get yourself a child!

Now in terms of broader happiness, you got to realize that it's mostly a physical condition and you can't talk yourself into it through therapy. Having kids is also not a one in all solution. You got to do regular physical workouts, be in nature frequently and maintain social connections beyond your immediate family. All of these things are also important for good parenting.

Do not assume that you have to spend all your time coding just because you used to, you probably know enough that the challenge is gone. Find some other hobby, ideally with your spouse so that you can reestablish your connection and discuss these kind of concerns with her rather than random geeks on hacker news.

Also get a dog, but a calm kind that you would not be scared to have around eventual baby. All in one exercise, nature exposure, hobby, bonding with spouse and a taste of greater responsibility so you can decide if you are up for even more. Take heart, it does get better!

My sister had a child in her late 30's (maybe 37 or 38), and before she got pregnant was actually spiralling into depression because she was having trouble getting pregnant. And whilst this kid is a bundle of potential ADD energy, he's also very bright and intelligent. Again, it's not too late.

However, fantasising about fatal illnesses doesn't point to a stable mental state, and raising a child, properly at least, requires almost inhuman mental and emotional stability (although plenty of people raise kids with wildly volatile emotional and mental states).

It also sounds as if you're fantasising about a 'solution' to your life, and have fixated upon having children as this solution. It sounds to me (and I've been known to be wrong on every level possible) as if you need to rediscover the joy of living and the uniqueness and diversity of the world / universe by experiencing more of it.

Being able to find enjoyment in life will also make you a better parent by way of example.

I remember a conversation with the doctor who helped us - when you want to bring a kid into this world, especially when you're having trouble doing so, you have to want to do it 120% - you should never be short on will.

If you are regretting your earlier decision to not have kids, recognize that you have changed, and make the subtle shift in your mind to want to have a child. Dream about the boy/girl and what kind of life you'll build around him/her, and what you and your partner will do for them and with them. The dreams will spur you to action and the action will shape your dream into reality. Good luck.

This isn't abnormal, some people I know quite well had intense anxiety at the prospect of being infertile, and I know a few others who have struggled with depression when that turned out to be fact. It's a big loss to grieve, so I think your feelings here are valid.

I also agree with the commenters here who say you should check with your partner, and if they're game go see a fertility specialist. Being on the same page here is important: at her age she'll be high-risk, and the possibility of pregnancy/delivery being harder increases substantially, as well as the possibility of birth defects, etc. It sounds abstract, but what this translates into is intense pain for months, and abortions if things go wrong. The stakes are pretty high.

But that said, I wish you the best of luck! The door may not be closed to you two and it's worth checking into.

But I also find it freeing: my life is about me. The pressure to breed, to achieve, to do what others expect recedes. Nothing matters. I am not going to pass on my genes, or leave a legacy, or even any footprints. I'm atheist so I don't even believe in any afterlife. When I die, that's it, everything is over and there's nothing left behind. It's very freeing. All I have left is what I want to do in my life, for me. I'd like to build my own house, marry my girl, travel to every continent on the planet, build a successful business. But if I don't, it doesn't matter too much. My purpose in life now is to enjoy it.

I suspect your really strong reaction to this is a symptom of something else going on. I've lost 10 years of my life to depression, so I know something about this. But not enough to do anything but recommend you continue seeking help. And reassure you that this is only temporary (like everything in life) and it will pass.

Good luck with it.

Try six or a dozen, try "weird" ones, just keep going to different therapists until you find one who works for you. Give each one time, a month or two max, but if they haven't been able to help you within a handful of weeks, move on to the next one.

There's a huge variety of kinds of therapy and therapists vary wildly.

You can still find someone who wants to have kids. You might go through a bit of heartache with your current spouse unless she comes around. But you’ll get over it and you will have more than enough time to raise a family. And it is your right to do so if you want to.

All the best.

And then, when they grow up, to keep up with them during physical activities, to teach and show them the way. It's possible, but it's much easier when you're in your 20's.

No wonder, armies around the world won't hire a 40 years old, and prefer youngsters in their early 20's: their body is still intact.

Age is not the death sentence you seem to think it is; on the contrary, if someone in early 40s doesn't have the energy/fitness to handle a child, they should see a doctor.

(I also got pregnant within a couple of months of trying, as did a neighbour of similar age. Personal biology trumps statistics.)

So yeah, it's better to start having children early than late. It doesn't mean that you'll be crippled in bed because you had them late (aside from the fertility issues).

Also, Hacker News is essentially composed of well-off, western people working in white collar jobs. Of course, those people will have easy and healthy lives; I wouldn't say the same for a mason or a cashier, and those people exist.

In any case, outside of the extremes there really isn't much physical difference between 40s and 20s unless you have health issues or you don't exercise. I'm 45 and lift about what I did when I was 25. My cardio is better (boxing, muay thai) and I don't need as much sleep as I used to when I was a kid. You don't want to step in the ring with a guy in his 20s/30s because your reaction times are ~80-150ms slower but that has very little impact on your ability to change a diaper.

Step outside, touch some grass, and meet people in the real world.

I'm really happy for you that you are entitled with enough time and money to lift/box/muay thai/cardio - I personally have to keep the bank account loaded enough to make ends meet, while I'm not at home helping with the daily chores. I did a lot of sport in the past though, I was a competitive rower in my home country, and I kept a very strong cardio out of it.

Anyway, why not a bit of skin in the game and test your theory about "no physical difference between 40s and 20s"? For instance, by marketing a health insurance in the US, where the premiums are the same for this age category? I hear that it's a good business, so why wouldn't you try? https://www.valuepenguin.com/how-age-affects-health-insuranc...

Nice to know I'm evidently such an exceptional physical specimen...

Also, if society can convince young men to not leave children, it can help them mature faster.

I decided to not have children and it was the absolute best decision of my life. I would just have hated to have had children. For many reasons, not just one.

I've known it from a very young age, about 13 or 14 years old, and I've never had any regrets whatsoever. Maybe the slightest pang every 2 or 3 years, for about 10 minutes. Then it goes away fast and I don't think about it for another few years.

Best single decision of my life.

Also, the worst thing that a person can do in terms of climate change, by far the worst thing, is to have a child. Far worse than having a car that burns 8 miles to the gallon or basically anything.

But as others have said, this sounds more like a mental health/mental illness situation. You 100% should see a therapist. for sure.

It was then my wife, who was then 44 and I had our first together, and it was and is wonderful. The way you mention age implies something that may or may not be true in your specific situation - e.g. 40-45 is not automatically too old. Being older and more stable did make certain things about having kids (again) easier and more enjoyable.

And many young couples who aren't able to have children too do adopt. It's something to consider.

I found having youngsters in the house made us both feel young again. Tired, but young again :)

https://advancedfertility.com/patient-education/causes-of-in...

Of course, it all depends on the woman's egg reserves and general health; but there, like I commented in another subthread, personal biology definitely trumps statistics.

The fact that you are getting anxiety attacks (or close to) because of this regret should be looked into. If you end up having children of your own (adopted or otherwise) know that they will make your stress levels go up, and you will worry about them and they will be a source of nuisance and bother a lot of the time. So better take care of that anxiety first.

Even if you end up not having children, living with anxiety is miserable.

So, get that looked up. I don't know you enough to recommend switching to a different therapist, but I can tell you it helped (still helps) me. In your case perhaps something other (a priest, or a coach) might be more appropriate.

Take it from someone on the other side - I frequently envy my 40 year old colleagues without kids. They travel, focus on their hobbies, and generally do what they want and seem happier and less stressed out. They have more money and drive nicer cars and have nicer, neater houses.

Kids are a major self sacrifice - you give up vast quantities of personal time and opportunities. It is a large trade off.

Imagine there's 3 giant luggages of your life, full of VHS tapes made out of lead(heavy). You know what's on those video tapes, its every experience in your life. There's tapes of the time you went over your bike handlebars. There's your wedding. Every bad and good memory in your history is in there.

The first luggage is labelled 'the past', this is the biggest and heaviest. >10,000lbs. A collected works of your entire life is going to be big and heavy.

The second luggage is labelled 'future' where every time you imagine something about the future it shows up in there. 99% of the time none of this ever happened. If you have an active imagination this luggage might be heavier than the first one; but generally it's big and heavy on average. Everyone imagines what the future may hold.

The third luggage is labelled 'today' and as you can imagine this is the only luggage small enough for you to handle. It gets heavier through the day but totally manageable.

You get to pick which one you get to move each day after you wake up. Can you imagine how exhausted you will be if you attempt to move the past or the future all the time? You can move only 1 luggage at a time, you can't handle more than 1. Don't try.

You also probably are doing even worse. You probably are trying to haul the past and future luggages at the same time and in so doing leaving the easiest one behind.

Here's how much easier it is to haul 'just today'. You wake up. You're not allowed to think about the past and certainly don't try to be nostradamus and predict something in the future. You may only deal with today and basically as things show up for you to do. You do them.

I just want to say you should definitely deal with the depression first. Having children is that single hardest thing you will ever do and being depressed will only make it harder. Continue therapy (even if it feels like it's not working - that's the depression - and it's a process not a magic cure), maybe even medication for a bit, start "planning" and giving yourself something to look forward to and towards and that will help with the depression because then your life will also have a direction to go in.

1. Have conversations with your doctors, 39 isn't too late. Begin the process and see where it takes you. 2. Adoption / Foster care is incredible on its own and you can be apart of breaking a cycle of abandonment and loss for a child. I could not be the father I am today if my father's foster parents didn't show up and give him the care he needed.

Finally, get involved with the children of your friends and community. Before we had our son we were serving with our childrens youth ministry and volunteering to help watch our friend's kids when their babysitters couldn't help them. It's eye opening and something I think every human should do.

My best to you on your journey!

But if it's possible (financially) for you to have kids now -- why isn't adoption a possibility? Your post reads as if you were in the final years of life, rather than mid-life, when you have the perspective and means to make that big change you put off until now.

I was talking with someone about this and he said to me, what defines a child as your son or daughter? Maybe think about this for a while and then talk with your spouse about what reasons she doesn't want a child? Maybe it is a fear of childbirth, maybe she doesn't want to nurse, or deal with a 3 year old. There are many young wonderful children at all ages that could use a loving father and mother.

(says someone some years older than you and who got a 4th baby 2 months ago with a wife same age as yours)

Men fertility declines slower than women generally. Men are good to 50 or later usually but there are always exceptions. There is rising risks of things like austism but I think all of that is after 40 generally and rises slowly as age increases.

If your goals are not the same as your partners then maybe your partnership has run its course. Shared values and goals is why couples stay together. Money, and kids are two of the big major shared goals and if yours have truly changed then well.

I think kids are possibly the best investment you can make. But I'm always like "no, I'm not quite ready, not enough funds, no decent apartment, no time to have a girlfriend, etc.". Damn... you dug up my own fears once again. If you or your wife are having health problems, consider possible alternative methods. I've heard people had infertility problems solved by switching to healthy food and using tesla-like healing coil technology (really cheap).

Stop freaking out, it's not too late.

You can't enjoy life normally anymore. Oh, you went on a european tour to appreciate some architecture? Well that's too bad. Little Josh will want all the attention. You had twins? Haha good luck with literally everything. The only gazing you will do is when you look at the night sky after you've put them to sleep wondering how good it would have been without children in your life.

Having them, or not having them. It is bad either way. Just cherish the life you've had so far thanks to not having children.

I deal with it as follows:

* Everyone is my child, I may have not birthed them, but I can have a parental feeling to just about anyone (person, animal, group etc.) in general. When a chance presents itself to give/contribute, do it.

Secondly, you should absolutely find a therapist (edit: missed that you're doing that already), perhaps one that specializes in these issues, and also a psychiatrist to help manage your anxiety.

Tactical: Do you have any family or friends or house of worship kin with kids? Offer to take them out to do something fun - go to the playground, go on a hike, go rollerskating. The best part of “other people’s kids” is you can give them back once you’ve spoiled them.

Check out hedy.org and go to your local library and offer to teach kids to code. All it takes is a web browser.

I'm not clear if your wife definitely can't have kids, or if she doesn't want them.

There are many women who have had children well into their 40s. Yes, it's more risky at that age but it's not impossible. In the age of modern medicine there's no [medical] reason not to try. However, you should really consider carefully as pointed out in the top comment by luxurytent whether having children will really be as fulfilling to you as you think it will be.

I know a number of people who chose not to have children. Some have some level of regret but nobody is going through the kind of dysfunction you are.

You have a lot of years left.

(Also, please do not adopt or otherwise have a child until you are healthy again.)

No it hasn't. I just had a baby and my wife is 40. We did have 2 other kids earlier though. But age is not necessarily the issue so don't make that an excuse. If you want to have kids, have them whenever you are ready. Even if the biological clock has run out, you can always adopt if you really want.

Have you actually discussed this in detail with your spouse ?

Failing that - look into surrogacy or adoption. All kids are a blessing.

Teach them to properly build treehouses, make their own bows and arrows, do skateboard tricks, handle guns, climb trees/rooftops, do parkour, and all that crazy stuff their moms wouldn't allow. Depends on what you're into, of course.

You will get to experience them at their best, but won't have to stand them at their worst. That's when you just hand them back to their parents.

If you really wanted children like you say, you'd become a foster parent, spend every free moment as a school volunteer (they're desperately needed), get involved in youth sports, sign up for every youth activity at your local church, and so on.

You can mentor and have excellent experiences with children that are not your biological descendants.

Also, consider adoption. Chances are there are MANY unfortunate kids out there who need a loving home. Just don't think of your adopted kid as the child of a stranger. It will be your own child in every conceivable way.