Psychedelics, mushrooms in particular, are essential tools for any wise programmer. Very very powerful, only to be consulted on rare occasions, but immensely valuable in solving intractable problems.
We essentially owe our profession to psychedelic explorations by pioneers of software engineering. Companies who drug test developers are ignorant of this history, and are the enemies of the digital revolution.
Brilliant, beautiful languages and programs came from these pioneers, and it's likely because of their rich neural networks, enhanced by psychedelics as seen in the Wired article. The ability to connect humanistic art and feeling with symbolic systems and code requires a sophisticated neural network. Psychedelics help build the mental infrastructure for software development that actually benefits humans.
I would love to see any stats or info about the relative consumption of psychedelics- both kind and amount- among engineers at specific companies or types of software firms.
Had my first acid trip a few weeks ago at a friend's place. I had brought my netbook to do some work on the train.
Midway through the trip I thought, "Wait a minute! My eyes are so open now. I can see patterns and bigger pictures like never before in my life. If I try doing some programming right now my abilities will be godlike."
I opened up my netbook, fired up Vim and was immediately distracted by the blinking cursor going up and down.
I knew a girl who was a junior at Darthmouth. She went to
a concert with her friends on a holiday break. At said
concert she took some acid. She went to bed. She woke up
and she didn't recognize the family members around her. She
got better over the years, and finally finished her degree
20 years later. I'm not anti drug, but I think about her
often. No, I have never tried anything other than pot. Pot
is too strong for my constitution. I wish I had the personality to experiment, but I am just not willing to take
the chance.
I've used pot a few times, but I didn't smoke it. Instead me in my friends made what is called 'marijuana milk'. First you Decarboxylate the marijuana for about 30 minutes. Then you mix it with milk and you boil that for a while.
I remember reading once that the world that you perceive around you is put together by your brain. The world is not actually a as unified and persistent as we 'see' it. That's just the brain doing a good job of filtering and parsing the signals that bombard it. It was during my 'weed-milk' adventure that I first experienced what this meant.
Well on my way in the adventure I was looking at a tv show (bob's burgers) that was running. I saw the images and understood what I was looking at. While watching I heard these strange echoes and harsh noises. They were very strange and disjointed sounds, there's really nothing like it. I investigated the sounds in my head and it was then that the 'echoes' transformed into the voices of the characters on screen. It was like my brain had failed to connect the linguistic center and the audio center together. And I was only hearing 'unparsed' sound waves (as weird as that sounds). After that the echoes would come and go if I didn't concentrate. It's as if thinking about it flipped the 'parse_sounds_as_a_language' switch somewhere.
There's really nothing like it, the best part, imo, is that you're still somewhat rational while all this is happening. You're very conscious of the things that are 'different' and I always felt that I could 'investigate' and communicate to others what exactly was different while stoned/high.
>They were very strange and disjointed sounds, there's really nothing like it. I investigated the sounds in my head and it was then that the 'echoes' transformed into the voices of the characters on screen. It was like my brain had failed to connect the linguistic center and the audio center together. And I was only hearing 'unparsed' sound waves (as weird as that sounds).
Yes most people don't realize their lives are lived completely in their head, constantly parsing a verbal stream and acting on it.
People believe the brain is the center, but it's really only a peripheral, more of a GPU than a CPU. When shut off, we operate just fine. It's easily to walk, observe, eat, cook, etc. without thinking at all and that's a good thing.
Many people get scared to be compared to vague concepts like "the vast, non-thinking masses," however, non-thinking is a mode to be switched in and out of with "thinking."
Thinking is an activity, like digging. We do it as necessary, but just like we shouldn't dig all day long, we shouldn't think all day long.
Many psychedelics as well as other consciousness-shifting experiences, like facing extreme fears, traveling, staying up all night, etc. will help put these concepts together, but few will do it on their own.
We could all benefit from more and gentle shifts in our consciousness.
I do have to say, I've also tried some other drugs in the past month or so (MDMA being one of them) and the effect I got was pretty horrific - the exact opposite of the effect most people get.
Even despite my bad experience I'm still interested in drug experimentation. I guess it's important to keep in mind that YMMV and if you try something new, make sure it's in a controlled environment (around people you trust, in a safe space, correct dosage of good quality stuff, etc).
Excellent point, but it was tried and tested stuff that friends had enjoyed previously.
I looked up the side effects in Erowid [1] afterwards and it mentioned one of the more rare side effects you get is "a profound sense of isolation and loneliness", which was pretty much a spot-on description. I'm assuming I'm just wired differently.
Look, it's good to know yourself. The probability of getting seriously messed by acid is extremely low, but the number one risk factor for a bad trip is being afraid of having a bad trip. Just don't worry about it and if someday you feel curious, just relax and do it. It sounds like you have a pretty good perspective.
Also, I will bet you that it wasn't (just) acid that fucked that girl up. Concerts are a great place to be exposed to all kinds of interesting substances.
I don't know. The first time I tried acid on my own I was quite afraid of having a bad trip. It turned out to be wonderful and transformative. My second solo trip I told myself something along the lines of "just don't worry" and it turned out pretty grim. A statement like "just relax" doesn't really compute cleanly and depends a lot on the subject's state of mind.
For me the number one factor was my external environment.
>but the number one risk factor for a bad trip is being afraid of having a bad trip.
Wise advice. I've always been angry with people who pressure people into psychedelics. You must be comfortable and with people you can trust when doing these things for the first time. Not doing so can make for a damaging experience.
Some people are susceptible for psychosis. LSD might give them the final push, turning them from the normal looking guy that sometimes say weird things to full-blown crazy.
I also know about a similar case in my social circle. An offbeat guy starts seeing demons after his first trip. Recovering in a mental institution ever since.
Yet I don't think LSD is to blame, it is just a trigger for a pre-existing underlying issue.
It doesn't matter either way - for all practical purposes, LSD causes psychosis to a small part of the population. Some of these people will develop psychosis without LSD, of course, but some will not.
Similarly, peanuts may kill some small part of the populations, fava beans a different part. They may die anyway independent of peanuts or fava beans. That's not a reason to ban them outright - rather, it's a reason to do the proper research to try to figure out who is susceptible and warn them.
An anecdote like that is extremely terrifying. It connects with us emotionally.
It blows our perception of risk out of proportion. I recommend you read the Wikipedia entry. LSD is incredibly safe, particularly when compared to caffeine and alcohol.
I am very sorry for the person you knew because LSD clearly interacted with something.
>There have been no documented human deaths from an LSD overdose. It is physiologically well tolerated and there is no evidence for long-lasting physiological effects on the brain or other parts of the human organism.
It may be "incredibly safe" physically, but it is known to trigger mental disorders in people who may have had a predisposition or not.
I don't think something that has that powerful of an effect on someone's mind should be taken lightly, or casually paraded around as being safer than caffeine or alcohol. We are not talking about an LD50 or death. We are talking about mental health.
There are severe significant and potentially long term consequences if you don't do your research or don't know your family's mental health history. The same applies for alcohol and other addictive drugs for similar reasons.
I say this as a person who had a familial predisposition to mental health issues that were triggered by psychedelic and other drug use.
OTOH, there is a (rarely accounted for) opportunity cost to not taking hallucinogens. Many folks are plagued by unfortunate mental health, which could possibly be remedied by psychedelic experiences.
It's a tricky situation, but important to acknowledge both the good and the bad possible outcomes in a rational, scientific manner.
Just as you say we should not parade powerful drugs around as safe, we should also not casually dismiss the therapeutic and spiritual effects because of negative anecdotes or (seemingly) rare negative outcomes.
You're right. We should all be cautious with what we put in our body.
I find it interesting that you would choose to respond to a post warning about the risks of anecdotal evidence with your own personal anecdote. The impact to you was real, and incredibly rare. I am very sorry for what happened to you. Lots of people die in plane crashes; that doesn't make planes unsafe.
>Estimates of the prevalence of LSD-induced prolonged psychosis lasting over 48 hours have been made by surveying researchers and therapists who had administered LSD:
Cohen (1960) estimated 0.8 per 1,000 volunteers (the single case among approximately 1250 study volunteers was the identical twin of a person with schizophrenia, and he recovered within 5 days) and 1.8 per 1,000 psychiatric patients
It is riskier for people with pre-existing conditions. There is some value in finding those conditions. There's some fledgling research that LSD can help with some conditions.
I've found that psychedelics are far more useful for planning and conceptualizing, not actually doing the work.
Put away the laptop and get out a pen and notebook and start drawing diagrams. The next day when you're not high as a kite you can take advantage of your focus to implement the ideas you came up with.
As an infantry veteran with multiple combat tours behind me, I have to say that psychedelics (and mushrooms in particular) are the one of the strongest forces grounding me to reality and bringing calm to my everyday life. You may be right that there's no knowledge to be found in mushrooms, but there's heaps of wisdom to be had -- about yourself, the people around you, and the universe generally -- if you're willing to listen.
I meant this: There's no knowledge in the machines. There is immense knowledge to be gained in a trip, I had just realized how little a machine could provide me while tripping.
Bit of a strong statement based on one personal experience.
I'm a psychologist and find psychedelics extremely interesting, both from personal experience, a wide range of other peoples accounts and a growing number scientific papers[1], especially Johns Hopkins University is doing some great work in that respect.
Edit: There is of course a lot of (mostly) anecdotal evidence for the bad sides of psychedelics but that seems to be attributed largely to the good old "set & setting" (and of course substance purity & quality). In traditional and especially medical contexts the occurence of "bad trips" and long term negative effects is extremely rare.
If you decide to try them on your own, do your homework, read up as much as you can and do them in a safe environment with people you trust.
Upvote for you, I meant no real knowledge in the machines, not the drugs. That trip alone changed my life, and opened me up to many new things.
Just badly worded on my part. I think computers are a source of a ton of information, but no knowledge. I realized then that real knowledge comes from physical experience and thought, and never from studying.
I find sleep to work most of the time. But yeah, once I was so stressed out I was constantly breaking out into cold sweats and felt like I was gonna vomit. Went camping on a Saturday and took acid. Left feeling more refreshed than I have ever had in my life.
Suppose someone who knows your friend's dog asks if it's a very stupid idea to get LSD from one of the "darknet" markets. What would the owner of the dog's dog friend reply? Would his sister-in-law who may or may not exist know about any pointers on how to find a trustworthy source (to actually get the correct quality) on such a platform?
You are fooling nobody and your use of code words to organize a crime would be held against you in a court of law if anyone gave a damn about your post here on HN.
I would imagine that the use of a "dog" in the chain of acquaintance is a dead giveaway that he's being facetious about the attempt to "hide" his request (regardless of whether the request itself is part of the joke).
"Markoff's book covers the years 1960 to 1975 and the area south of San Francisco around Stanford University that would later come to be known as Silicon Valley. I arrived in Palo Alto in 1980, after the period described in the book, but got to know most of the people Markoff depicts. I can report that if anything, he underplays the degree to which they behaved in ways that would today be considered outrageous and radical, and what I saw was said to have been mild compared with what had come before. [...]
And yes, there were drugs and naked people in the rooms where some of the code that now drives your e-mail around the globe was first set down."
second that, this gives very interesting insight about the mixture of 60s counterculture, then still legal psychotherapeutic and/or recreational experiments with psychoactive substances and the beginnings of "personal" computing
reading this helped a lot realizing the innovation and impact "The Mother of All Demos" really brought and getting a understanding about the environment in which this was envisioned and implemented
http://www.wired.com/2013/12/tech-time-warp-engelbart/
Sorry, any insights and perspective shifts brought on through tripping can be made just the same if you work on it through life experience instead of relying on a drug to enlighten you.
I say this as someone who has had many psychedelic experiences and programs.
In my own experience, every engineer that I have worked with who regularly uses psychedelics has substandard problem-solving abilities.
Note that I'm not "knocking" psychedelics per se. I've never personally tried them and I don't know enough to comment on their effects or risks. I'm just providing an anecdotal counterpoint to yours.
There are a lot of general comments in this thread about people's minds being usefully expanded by drug use. I'm not disputing these, but could someone perhaps provide a specific example about a problem they were stuck on which they then managed to solve with the assistance of drugs?
No way man, that's such a square question, it's not about specifics, it's about generalities.
Ahem. That was a joke. But in seriousness, I've also never heard a specific example of a programming problem solved during a trip, but I can say that I've found tripping to be very beneficial in some unexpected areas:
1. Holistic understanding feels easier. E.g. understanding other people on a much deeper holistic level. I'm usually not very great at group socializing in parties or whatnot but tripping actually helps with that a lot. This is, in my mind, the same kind of "systems understanding" that could be applied to programming. You can intuitively understand a complex system of subtle interactions, on a deeper level than just what's being said.
2. Visualization. Almost anything can be visualized, even if it doesn't really make sense. And the visualizations feel real, which makes them easier to move and comprehend. Sometimes you can literally see them, like in the patterns of the veins on your hand, or the stitching in your clothes.
3. Unexpected mutation. During a trip, things can often move in a weird way, including things that don't normally move, like concepts or diagrams (or walls -- just try not to stare at them too long). It's notoriously challenging to rotate, skew, or otherwise transform your mental visuals. Tripping can make this trivial.
4. Perceived reality. The difference between real and virtual completely fades. Video games feel real (which is awesome when it's not terrifying). Have you ever played an FPS where you are literally afraid to die? It actually makes you a lot better! This same perceptive shift collapses the difference between real/virtual, digital/analog (in the nontechnical sense), practical/theoretical. It collapses inside/outside as well. You are not separate from what you are doing or thinking about; you're part of the system, like you're literally contained within the conceptual structure. This kind of dichotomy-destroying mindset opens up some very interesting new perspectives.
Compilers are generally considered very complex programs, and the "mind expanding" properties of psychedelics helped him for laying out the high level design (he did not do the actual coding while under the influence).
I regularly consume MDMA with my best friend (two or three or four times a year) and during these day-long trips, we discuss a wide range of problems we're having with our personal programming projects. Not every problem is solved in these times, but there certainly is some ground gained on a few of them. Sometimes it might as well be NP-hard to solve concrete problems after enough MDMA, but I am confident that the effects of MDMA establish a channel of communication between us that we don't normally get to enjoy, and that channel can be very useful for solving specific problems. And the things we talk about range very widely to a huge number of subjects. I'd say most of our core beliefs about the universe are affected by our use of psychedelics. Personally, I also use mushrooms for sort of directed trips to explore my life situation, and again, it's pretty hard to do any coding while high, but conceptually, there is absolutely no way I would have had some of the ideas I've had without psychedelics.
To play devil's advocate: could it be that generally curious, risk-taking, meta-thinking individuals tend to make better engineers, which just happens to be a personality type that is naturally drawn to psychedelics?
Really, we can play arm-chair neuroscientist indefinitely, but there is only one way to get to the bottom of this. We must gather more, um, data.
To create innovative solutions you have to be creative. This includes thinking outside of the box, putting dogma into question, clearing your own paths, and this all translates to connecting concepts that we don't usually connect. Some people do it naturally, some use psychedelics, some do both.
I think cultivating this as an attitude is usually a good thing (in life) and can lead to powerful insights. In fact this is a really cheap way to innovate. Take concepts from one domain, cast them onto another, profit. A cross disciplinary culture helps a lot. I'm sure many people here understand very well what I mean.
So to answer you more precisely, I really have only one data-point and I think both the traits you describe and psychedelics can make interesting (if not better) engineers.
The article's title is somewhat misleading, because it talks about how one of the main chemicals (psilocybin) temporarily creates or encourages connections between typically unconnected parts of the brain. The effect is temporary, and reverts when the drug wears off.
I tried psilocybin once and I had a great time. However, I strongly feel like it changed me. The problem is that I've never been someone that felt depressed. I'm a "the glass is half full" kind of guy.
Well, you hear all over how psilocybin can help people who are depressed. For me, it was quite the opposite. I woke up in the morning, and I couldn't even get out of the bed. Work felt like a chore. This lasted a few months, and it was horrible. The only thing that got me through it was the thought that this wasn't me. This was chemicals in my brain. I was a positive person, I could be again. I could be myself again.
Anyway, fast forward to now, I feel a lot better. My outlook on life really changed, and I'm sure people could say that I act differently. I don't regret trying it, nor do I regret the experience it made me live afterward. I could never understand depression. How could those people simply not get on with their lives and be happy? Well, I know now.
Psychedelics make you learn stuff that you cannot easily "unlearn", like any major life experience. It expands your awareness in ways that sometimes are not pleasant (very often, "ignorance is bliss"). That's the reason most psychedelics are not recreational, but rather "spiritual" drugs. They are self-development tools, and like any tool you must know how to use them.
It's totally possible to be enlightened by a bad trip, rather than traumatised. It all depends on your outlook on life, how you instinctively react to adversity. You should see everything under the self-development lens, where everything is an opportunity for growth, and never feel victimised. Your goal after a bad trip should not be just "to recover", but rather to become your best yet. Much like a muscle that grows stronger after you strain it at the gym, psychedelics exercise the mind, and can make you mentally stronger. However, like in the gym, the recovery periods are essential, and over-exercising is detrimental.
In answer to the people who always bring up the subject of psychosis: any extremely stressful event can trigger psychosis in people who are prone to have it (for example a divorce, or any big loss). As a rule of thumb, if you're close to 30 and you've been through tough times and feel fine, you're safe. I personally believe that if you're a lucid, clear minded person, looking for self-development, psychedelics are for you. If you're an easily scared person not interested in self-development, psychedelics are definitely not for you.
"It's totally possible to be enlightened by a bad trip, rather than traumatised."
One of the most enlightening experiences of my life was a horrendously frightening trip on salvia divinorum. I took it by tincture. I later learned that I'd done a much bigger dose than I'd thought I had. Anyhow, the experience was akin to madness. I felt detached. I lapsed into fugue state. I saw, heard, and "felt" things. Above all else, I maintained just enough lucidity to retain meta-cognition: I was sane enough to know that I'd become crazy. That is an awful feeling. I thought I was losing my mind, and that I'd never return to normalcy.
Well, ridiculous as it sounds, the idea of becoming permanently schizophrenic frightened me into a very deep, very fast-paced analysis of my life to date. With whatever scrap of sanity I had left, I scrawled down my hopes, my dreams, and my goals for the future. Goals I'd need my wits about me in order to achieve. Some of these goals I'd had for years, and I'd made virtually no progress towards them. In this brief period of paranoia -- this fear of never again being able to pursue my dreams -- I strengthened my resolve to try.
Oh, and I also wrote a bunch of sappy, ridiculous emails to all of my closest friends. They still pull those emails out, from time to time, for shits and giggles. They're pretty loopy. And yet, there's a real heart and honesty to them.
I'm glad I had the experience. I'll never do it again, though. (I've tried other psychedelics, fwiw, but this was my only honest-to-goodness "bad trip").
Like a plane, like an ocean liner, like a battleship, you can have fun with them, but you can also blow your head apart. They should be given the utmost respect, since they can, as you found out, radically change your life and outlook on the world.
If you are after their psychotherapeutic effects, you would be wise to only take them under the supervision of a trained and experienced therapist who you respect and trust.
From personal experience: I was seeking to open up my mind. I didn't have a clear goal or a strong desire to trip into oblivion. But, there was an urgency to explore the world through the use of psychedelics. I believe each trip brought immense clarity about the human experience. It has been over 7 years since I last used mushrooms or LSD. I knew after the first trip, my brain had changed. My thoughts and who I was had changed as well. At this time it is hard to pinpoint exactly how much has changed because of the psychedelics or from growing up. But, I still feel a deeper connection to life than I did before I tripped. By life, I mean everything: what we deem living and non living objects.
"If you are after their psychotherapeutic effects, you would be wise to only take them under the supervision of a trained and experienced therapist who you respect and trust."
In what countries is this possible? Are these licensed therapists in the traditional sense, or something more like a shaman (for lack of a better name)?
It is possible in more countries than you might expect.
I strongly recommend reading The Secret Chief Revealed,[1] for a taste of how this has been done even in countries where prohibition rages, like the US.
You would also profit from following the links. reading up on, and perhaps contacting the various people and organizations listed in the Wikipedia article on Psychedelic Therapy.[2]
In general, the therapeutic benefits kick in at doses far lower than recreational amounts.
As an anecdote, which does not data make: times I took very small doses of mushrooms (<5% of a "normal" recreational dose for me) while suffering depression, I felt an improvement of my mood with minimal other effects, and none of the hallmark signs of tripping.
Care should always be taken with chemicals that seriously alter perception and mental activity - as you say, they are incredibly powerful - for good, neutral, or ill.
Serendipitously, BigThink has a video up by Sam Harris where he talks about psychedelics as a tool (not the only one) to help achieve greater insight into the workings of the mind.
You mention your outlook on life changed, would you mind elaborating on this? What influence has this altered outlook had on your life and goals?
Speaking from personal experience, my use of psychedelics has profoundly realigned my goals.
One of my earliest goals was to become a clinical psychologist. I like people and I like how they tick, but my first use of LSD caused a reevaluation on that.
I hate giving advice that gets ignored, and I was entering a profession where this is the majority of what happens. You have to be nice and calm and keep repeating steps until people finally get the picture and listen to you.
Not only was that not for me, but I didn't even want to stay where I lived. It not only made me reevaluate my goals but my perception of risk.
I wanted to travel and visit friends I had made online, so I did. I was 18 and did it alone, friends said I was insane for taking such a "risk". I'm now living in a different country (continent too) and married to one of those friends I visited.
Recently I took a strong dose of magic mushrooms and it had an unusual response. Normally I experience what I call uber-Ego. It's a solipstic euphoria where I feel like I'm God and my subconscious created everything to entertain me. However, this time it felt like something dealt a death blow to my soul.
This last time, I realized I hated my life. I live in an urban area, which I hate. I'm a country boy, I always wanted to live in the country. Now with a 18 month old, I'm dealing with hating the life he has and is going to have.
Me and my wife are never home because cost of living is so high. I see my son between 5pm and 7pm on weeknights, so does my wife. He spends almost 5/6ths of his waking time with other people.
We're now planning on selling up and moving to the country where her family lives. Within a couple years we can quarter our living expenses, which would put our costs low enough that I could be a career writer - something I gave up because I had to pay exorbitant expenses to hate my life.
This last time made me depressed, and I still feel it. I've been working almost every night from when my kid goes to bed until I do on writing.
I don't think the mushrooms made me depressed, not one bit. I think the mushrooms made me bypass my superego that was blocking me from seeing my wants whilst catering to my needs.
I definitely changed personality wise afterward, but I know I had been annoyed and angry for months for reasons I couldn't explain, and in hindsight I'd been annoyed ever since we put our son into daycare.
My outlook of life changed in many ways, but I find myself more aware of the world around me and I'm, I think, more cynical.
More tired too. Everything feels like a chore. If I don't focus on myself, I let my hygiene go more than I usually would. I am a monkey, living in a capitalist dream... or nightmare. But all of this is the left over from the depression.
I feel I am a more loving person. Empathy was a skill that I severely lacked before. I can connect more easily with people now.
I once read a theory that depression is an adaptive mechanism linked with neural plasticity and our bodies way to relearn how to behave under drastically changed circumstances.
Think, the most common causes for depression are serious loss. I lost one of my pets and it was crushing, even though it really wasn't a significant life, it was a pet I cared for every single day. That actually lead me to buying a house, I literally couldn't deal with the fact that in an apartment I had to garbage can something I loved and couldn't bury it in a grave.
When my childhood dog passed away, I hadn't seen it in three years as I'd moved continent. It was sad, but it didn't alter my life in any way.
> I am a monkey, living in a capitalist dream... or nightmare.
It sounds like you underwent a major paradigm shift, which could be the cause of your depression.
Personally I've found myself far less hateful. I can empathise with anyone and everything when I want to (which is a super-bonus for the writer in me). Like the shooting in Ottawa, I found myself feeling sorry for the shooter and his family as much or more than the victim. They're going to receive a lot of unfair attention and treatment, only because the guy was a convert to Islam and no one's going to pay attention to the grievous failures of the system that at every stage of failure could have potentially stopped this event ever being a possibility. Maybe instead of kicking a crack addict who didn't know how to get the right help, had been helped we wouldn't have two dead and lives torn apart.
My mind never once thought that way before I used psychedelics. I was intelligent, but my ability to project my understanding onto others was all but non-existent.
Sorry to hear about your depression, and I hope that you pull out of it ok. Here are my thoughts on it, for what they're worth to you.
I've suffered from depression for most of my life, so I've spent a great deal of time thinking about it, 'Why me? Why do I feel this way?' I have tried to 'cure' it with therapy (CBT). I've tried to cure it by adjusting the chemicals in my brain with medications. Neither of these have worked well, or at least they have been temporary fixes.
After 30 years or so, I've discovered a much simpler approach: remove all of the things in one's life that doesn't 'seem' right or 'feel' right. Like any other disease (take diabetes, for example) some people have a genetic predisposition for it. But, in many cases, the odds of being affected is a combination of both one's genetics and environment. I try to solve my depression by thinking similarly. That is, awareness and sensitivity to one's environment are factors in the disease for those with a natural disposition for these traits.
Perhaps the mushroom experience has opened your brain to new insights and awareness, and these are now negatively affecting you?
I suggest trying CBT and medications: they're the right things to do, medically. But, concurrently, try to start removing things from your life, even if temporarily. It's can be difficult process to remove from one's life the things that cause disease because they're often enjoyable (bacon to a heart disease sufferer). In the case of depression, it may mean removing things that help define one's identity. Perhaps it means quitting jobs, selling houses, getting divorce, abandoning friends, changing habits, changing patterns of thought, solving addictions, destroying routines.
In the end, all I can give you is anecdote, but if the depression remains or gets worse, it's at least worth a shot.
Edit:
I'm suggesting taking a systematic and rational approach for finding the environmental factors. I'm not suggesting that anyone go out and do these things without thought, wholesale, on impulse. But, unless the ratio of positive to negative is above 1, they're at least things to consider changing. It's up to each person to determine what these things could be.
>Often it means quitting jobs, selling houses, getting divorce, abandoning friends, changing habits, changing patterns of thought, solving addictions, destroying routines.
Some of this sounds like mania to me. Perhaps unsurprisingly, since mania is seen (by Melanie Klein for example) as a defense mechanism against depression.
edit: I understand your point, didn't mean to jump to conclusions.
> Perhaps it means quitting jobs, selling houses, getting divorce, abandoning friends, changing habits, changing patterns of thought, solving addictions, destroying routines.
I agree with all of these except divorce. While it is true that you want to make changes that benefit your own life, you don't want to make changes that also ruin someone else's.
Rather than the mushrooms causing your depression, they may have exposed it, allowing you to continue to develop and be aware of parts of your experience that you'd previously not been able to feel. That you went through that, came out of it, and now feel whole, sounds like a wonderful thing.
Fagsworth is correct in a semantic sense, however there needs to be respect of the process of healing.
It isn't a magic bullet, where you take them, have a trip, and are suddenly a different human being.
This can, and certainly does, happen.
However, psychedelic experiences leading to profound introspection can sometimes exacerbate the symptoms. The ego, when exposed, is a very sensitive construct and can sometimes take a while to re-establish itself.
An example: You are a nice, caring person... But you can be a supremely arrogant jerk on occasion. You take mushrooms, and have an hour of uncomfortable dissonance on the negative effects of your arrogance.
You discover a new way to look at yourself, that completely alters your outlook on yourself as a human partaking in the human experience. But, this hurts a little because you feel ashamed and embarrassed.
This isn't something that may help you somersault out of bed the next day, but once you understand what you learned you may find yourself being more compassionate in the long run.
The difference between "causing" and "exposing" doesn't seem very meaningful or scientific. I often see people make the same claim of these drugs when they cause psychosis or schizophrenia, but it sounds more like a defense of the drug than anything else.
What we want, for understandable reasons, is a predictable way to just make ourselves happier, smarter, and more effective.
Psychedelics seem to be able to do that for some people, but not for others, and the effect overall seems like it has this "journey" component as well as a hefty dose of non-determinism.
I suspect that the thing we really don't like about that is what it says about self-improvement.
What if there isn't a neat, linear, deterministic path from "worse" to "better?" What if it always takes some kind of winding journey, whether involving psychedelics or not? What if there is no happy pill, or at least not one whose brand of happiness we would really want?
Why do you think this can cause schizophrenia? Are you trying to suggest a psychosis can temporarily produce similar symptoms, or that there is fundamental damage to the brain resulting in long term disease? These are massively different claims.
Dr Karl (he's roughly analogous to Bill Nye, I guess) does a radio show in Oz (and maybe the UK too?) where he answers listeners questions. Occasionally people will ask about psychoactive drug usage and he'll umm and ahh, acknowledge that lots of art and science has been helped along by various drugs but ultimately say that some people are just predisposed to have bad experiences, perhaps even inducing long term psychosis or similar, and for that reason he can't recommend recreational drugs. While many people may use drugs for years and have positive experiences, some people will be broken by their first usage.
As he is fond of saying: All drugs are poisons, what matters is the dose.
I'm curious: was your experience positive, perhaps even amazing, until you went to sleep and woke up depressed?
An expert in the psychedelic experience would likely say that through this experience you learned both the nature of depression and how to grow beyond it.
These things are not "recreational." Their effects are difficult to predict, highly individual, and while often transformative are not always pleasantly so. Yet I've found both myself and with most people I've known who have used these things, the effects tend to be on balance positive.
The only exception is people who chronically abuse these substances. Using them irresponsibly, repeatedly, and carelessly can indeed destroy your mind. I've seen it.
I had an interesting experience myself many years ago that was very beneficial.
When I was younger I was often an underachiever. When I tried I scored off the charts, and when I found things I liked (like programming) I would self-educate to the amazement of adults (was doing 6502 machine code at 8). But I just didn't have any desire to do anything "out there" that was strong enough to motivate me to deal with the annoying hoops you have to jump through to get there. I always hated school and did poorly at it, and had no idea what I wanted to do. I think I really dreaded growing up.
After the experience, all that changed and rather abruptly. I returned to college after having left, and my GPA went from <2.0 before to >3.5. My first quarter back was full of A's and B's, not C's and D's, and this mostly continued through to the end. I did change major, from CS to biology, because I'd had this huge epiphany about how if you want to understand AI you have to understand how life actually does intelligence. So I proceeded to finish all my bio prereqs in accelerated time and still managed to finish with a high GPA in 2 years. Then I went into research, biotech, and eventually got into startups (but that's another story).
I ended up working in CS, but the bio-inspired intelligence research is still a strong interest of mine and I follow the literature pretty religiously. I might go back to it if I'm ever able to make a gig out of it. In bio I also learned a lot of math and science stuff that I've used on a regular basis since then for other purposes, as well as a uniquely biologically-informed way of looking at complex systems and economies and such.
Ever since that experience, my output increased astronomically in every area. I also became more socially active and generally more positive.
Still, any time someone asks me about psychedelics I always give them both a dose of optimism and a dose of caution. As I said I've seen "acid casualties." These things are powerful and should not be used without respect. I haven't personally touched these things in many many years, and haven't had much interest in doing so. I feel like whatever benefit I was able to get has already been achieved.
Edit: I wasn't trying to make some point against the original commenter, just relating my own experience. If you delve into the literature you'll find an enormous variety of experiences both positive and negative.
temporarily creates or encourages connections between typically unconnected parts of the brain
Does this imply that you could potentially practice connecting those "typically unconnected parts" (through meditation or other) such that this substance would have little or no effect on you neurologically?
Terence's picture of meditation is pretty superficial (in the above clip, in particular); it is not fair to compare what he is presenting as a view of 'meditation' as deep meditation.
Meditation on par with psychedelic drug use would be more akin to vipassana-style meditation.
A large part of Shamanism that occurs between entheogenic ritual is intentional "melding" of states. Shamans are instructed to try to harmonize their senses, see their smells, taste their vision.
If you work out all the time, would steroids have no effect on your body? Of course no one would say no to that, the steroids would enhance it even further.
Yes, but a seven course meal unlike anything you've ever had will give you a bit more of an experience than the dollar menu at a new fast food chain you've never been to.
Everything you experience, may (and I'm not saying it's a definite) be learning, but to assign equal weight to all experiences is obviously naive.
Interesting that while the brain is interconnected the way it's depicted in the article, people report having mystical experiences (eg see God), traveling vast distances through galaxies and strange worlds, see spirits of plants and objects, see themselves as a small insignificant part of the large organism that is Earth and at the same time, realise that they are immortal and that this life is one of an infinity of others and that they are God.
The larger the dose, the deeper the experience and I would speculate that the number of brain parts interconnected is even higher and the connecting lines even thiker.
Why is that ? What would happen if 100% of the brain would start exchanging information like this?
What if we could connect only the blue or green areas?
Psychedelics are the new unexplored frontier in science.
Imagine a technology (or drug) which allows selecting which networks in the brain to interconnect (temporarily). This could be used to design new mental abilities, train or enhance existing ones.
I'm really pleased that the taboo regarding these substances is slowly being lifted. I'm also happy that more and more people will take these substances and as a consequence will "expand their minds".
Ken Kesey wrote two of my favorite books "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" (1962) and "Sometimes a Great Notion" (1964), but basically produced nothing of much merit after that.
I'm convinced that his subsequent over-indulgence in psychedelics destroyed his ability to produce great literature.
One thing I consistently saw in people that tried these substances is that abusing them -- heavy, careless use -- can be very harmful. I would not recommend it. I saw a few people in my youth who kind of just "never came back."
They seem able to produce beneficial effects in moderation and if treated with respect. I suppose that's true of lots of other powerful technologies. Treat them with respect and they can work well, but abuse them and they'll harm you.
The late Bob Wallace (Microsoft) experimented with low dose psychedelics as aid to programming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Wallace
Undoubtedly there are more, but they keep understandably silent about it. Even more interesting would be (to me) programmers who would use meditative practices. Techniques - or better named attitudes - like mindfulness, self-awareness, the ability to take a step back to look at the bigger picture also aid in all areas of life. I was presently surprised to hear someone talk about mindfulness in relation to programming on a developer conference (Arrrrcamp):
http://beatimpostorsyndrome.net/actions.html
About other programmers, I think it's telling "Why the luck stiff" referred to John Lilly's metaprogramming of the mind in his famous kaleidoscopic Ruby guide page 107:
"You might be inclined to think that metaprogramming is another hacker word and was first overheard in private phone
calls between fax machines. Honest to God, I am here to tell you that it is stranger than that. Metaprogramming began with taking drugs in the company of dolphins."
"We learn. But first we learn to learn. We setup programming in our mind which is the pathway to further programming. (Lilly is largely talking about programming the brain and the nervous system, which he collectively called the biocomputer.)
Lilly’s metaprogramming was more about feeding yourself imagery, reinventing yourself, all that. This sort of thinking links directly to folks out there who dabble in shamanism, wave their hands over tarot cards and wake up early for karate class. I guess you could say metaprogramming is New Age, but it’s all settled down recently into a sleeping bag with plain old nerdiness. (If you got here from a Google search for “C++ Metaprogramming”, stick around, but I only ask that you burn those neural pathways that originally invoked the search. Many thanks.)"
For sure mushrooms and psylocybin are unsuitable for programming, but low doses of cocaine, acid or 2C-* might have their value. The best programmer however learns to meta-program and hack his mind without chemicals.
I've maintained a regular meditation practice 2 years sitting for ~30 mins a day. The benefits are most noticeable when dealing with other people and if I have an important meeting with a client I'll meditate shortly before, which undoubtably improves the outcome.
It helps reduce the influence of my ego over these interactions. This in turn lowers my clients' guard and reduces their egos as well. Less ego makes meetings less about politics and more about solving real problems.
More generally, meditation has helped me maintain focus on my work and made me less susceptible to distractions.
Don't forget about the risks of taking psilocybin. I myself had a psychosis triggered by them, no fun at all (believe me) and in many cases not reversible.
Jesus, when I read the comments it seems that most programmers are on drugs while coding. No wonder most of the code out there is so shitty. If you need drugs in order to be creative, that's pretty sad.
Have you ever taken psychedelics? Did you even read the article? You cannot judge things you are ignorant of.
Also, none of the programmers in the comments are high while coding. Some who have used psychedelics only told it gave them more insight in i.e. patterns and structures.
To me personally, psychedelics saved my life. One trip showed me exactly what to do to be happy again and ever since my life is going exactly how I want it. Before I was living the life other people expected me to live, without even being aware of that (like the majority of people).
Using drugs to escape might be sad, but using psychedelics to expand your mind is something I could recommend to almost anyone. There's a lot of wisdom hidden inside of us that is mostly supressed by the way we are nurtured, psychedelics make us connect to this again and teach us to be our real selves.
No, I've never taken psychedelics. I don't need them. My mind is already operating at full capacity without them. When I notice that something bothers me, I think about it, sometimes for a month or so. Eventually I will find the answer to the problem.
We essentially owe our profession to psychedelic explorations by pioneers of software engineering. Companies who drug test developers are ignorant of this history, and are the enemies of the digital revolution.
Brilliant, beautiful languages and programs came from these pioneers, and it's likely because of their rich neural networks, enhanced by psychedelics as seen in the Wired article. The ability to connect humanistic art and feeling with symbolic systems and code requires a sophisticated neural network. Psychedelics help build the mental infrastructure for software development that actually benefits humans.
I would love to see any stats or info about the relative consumption of psychedelics- both kind and amount- among engineers at specific companies or types of software firms.