Sorry Armin/Mr Ronacher/Mitsuhiko but your "Bitcoin is Wild West" rant is unwarranted.
Your problem has little to do with Bitcoin and all to do with the fact that a bunch of guys signed you up to their payment service without your consent.
I agree except for the fact that his concern with tip4commit is that it wouldn't exist if bitcoin wasn't available. The fact that bitcoin is what is making tip4commit to run without much regulation is Armin's main point.
And what would he do about an international tip service that is not incorporated in Austria that pestered him like this?
The jurisdiction of almost any country besides the US in terms of what happens online is almost nil. I don't see the recourse an Austrian would take against an online tip service in China or South Africa that spams them with tip notifications.
Actually, in most first world countries you'd have a hell of a time doing this for very long or on much of a scale without the authorities catching up with you.
Sure, services in other countries could still maybe get up and running, but they'll have a harder time finding donors.
Why do people keep referring to his post as a rant?
I'm from Germany, which has a taxation system very similar to that of Austria and to me this seems a rather level-headed assessment of the situation.
It irks me that many Bitcoin advocates continue to pretend that the rules don't apply to them. Assets are assets. You can't wiggle out of the tax code by doing some crypto on a computer.
And BTW: if you are in Germany and hold large amounts of Bitcoin, talk to your Steuerberater _right_ _now_. The Finanzamt isn't stupid.
Because it has nothing to do with Bitcoin. It's because he was signed up to something without his consent. Bitcoin works not differently to cash in regards to taxation, and if you got dodgy envelopes with cash you wouldn't blame "cash" for it.
In some places it's treated as an asset rather than cash. In some it's illegal.
If I got unwanted cash, in a new currency, from enthusiasts keen that I take it regardless and refusing to opt me out of their system... I might think less of that new currency too.
Right. But would you blame the cash? rather than the "enthusiasts"?
Also, note that this "cash" is readily exchangeable for US$, Euro, etc. which makes this "BTC smells" argument absolutely pointless.
Just imagine you got envelopes with Indian Rupees in them. Why on Earth would you go on a rant on the currency? What happened hardly has anything to do with it. It appears to me some people are just looking forward to express their dislike about Bitcoin or whatever else they dislike, be it relevant or not. Thus, "rant".
>> Right. But would you blame the cash? rather than the "enthusiasts"?
What's the difference? Its value is subjective and brought about by the people that use it. If I find them obnoxious I might not want to deal with it at all. If someone came up with Arsebucks and they were used predominantly by arseholes, I might not involve myself in that either.
>> Also, note that this "cash" is readily exchangeable for US$, Euro, etc. which makes this "BTC smells" argument absolutely pointless.
If you've got an account set up to perform such exchanges, and if you disregard all the valid legal and taxation reasons people have come up with, and if you ignore all the various transfer and conversion fees, and the market volatility ... sure. But I haven't got such an account, and I don't want one either (frequent hacking comes to mind as a reason).
>> Just imagine you got envelopes with Indian Rupees in them. Why on Earth would you go on a rant on the currency?
Given that it's illegal to take Rupees into or out of India, I might have some concerns, yes! There's another currency you want to be careful with!
>> It appears to me some people are just looking forward to express their dislike about Bitcoin or whatever else they dislike, be it relevant or not. Thus, "rant".
There are a lot of reasons to dislike BTC in itself, over other currencies (I don't want to get into that argument here), at least some of which are down to how individual countries treat BTC.
There are a lot of reasons not to want to be involved in its ecosystem (dodgy dealers, hacking etc).
There are a lot of reasons not to want to be opted in to a tipping service that you can't leave.
I don't think any of these are irrelevant to the situation, it's a nice combo of all of them.
Because ... ?
Because you say so? Colour me totally unbothered by what you think is a rant or not then. Your criteria for characterising rants are obviously wanting.
> I said unwarranted. As in, not justified and not related to his recent anecdote.
[Sorry. I couldn't believe you intended the correct meaning of unwarranted and instead meant "unjustified" in an entirely different sense.]
As he pointed out, if tip4commit tried to do what it was doing with anything other than a crypto currency, it'd have to change its ways or be shut down rather quickly; either way, he'd not have to deal with the problems it presents.
That may not be the most central point to his anecdote, but it is certainly a "warranted" point in the discussion.
Your problem has little to do with Bitcoin and all to do with the fact that a bunch of guys signed you up to their payment service without your consent.