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That is an absolutely brilliant turn of events – strong evidence that the font in an anti-piracy campaign was itself arguably a copyright-infringing knock-off.

Someone should sue FACT for copyright infringement – and refuse to settle.




The song is also stolen: it’s an unauthorised interpolation of one man army by the prodigy:

https://open.spotify.com/track/65zwPZvsUCU55IpyWddFsK?si=bBf...


How does that square with this article, which says that the music was composed by Dutch musician Melchior Rietveldt specifically for the ad? (And that they failed to pay him properly for the use of the music.)

https://torrentfreak.com/rights-group-fined-for-not-paying-a...


Melchior Rietveldt’s work was for a different antipiracy ad

https://torrentfreak.com/sorry-the-you-wouldnt-steal-a-car-a...


You can't copyright a font.


A typeface design, in the U.S., no, but the digital font file comprising outline data and instructions, according to current U.S. law, for an overview of current case law and a proposal see:

https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/chtlj/vol10/iss1/5/


There's no evidence XBAND Rough was extracted from a digital source bit-for-bit, unless someone can point to any?

It seems like it was just a hobbyist project to recreate the look of the font from the anti-piracy ads? Which is 100% legal.

Edit: OK, so the original font appears to be "FF Confidential"? Why didn't the post even mention that? So maybe it is a digital clone, which would be illegal. But then strange that there aren't any DMCA takedowns of it on major font sites?


In this case it seems like what happened was:

1. Catapult Entertainment made/commissioned XBAND Rough as a clone of Confidential for their use somewhere (promotional materials, PC software, who knows?). The font file contains the text "Copyright 1996 Catapult Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved".

2. The "You wouldn't steal a car" campaign pirated Catapult's copyrighted font file. I think they got away with it because Catapult was no longer in business at that point. They were acquired by Mpath Interactive in 1996 and Mpath's IP got acquired by GameSpy in 2000.


Idk if it's provable how it was recreated but if you type in "XBAND Rough" into the sampler box at the bottom of the page https://www.myfonts.com/collections/ff-confidential-font-fon... and compare to https://fontzone.net/font-details/xband-rough it's exactly the same and the letter splotching is very distinct in the lower case letters.


"It looks the same" is completely different than having been directly extracted from digital source.

If the digital source is the only thing that can be copyrighted, then you have to prove the digital source is what was used inappropriately. If you can't prove that, either because it didn't happen or because there's no technological way to prove it, then you can't prove copyright infringement.


Ages ago, I consulted on a case where a converted font was included in a product --- it was even simpler than https://luc.devroye.org/kinch.html since no transformations were applied --- just had to figure out which version of which font editor was used to open up the font file and then which settings were used to re-generate the font in the new format used for the infringing product.


I'm not saying it's never possible in any case, just that in cases where it's not you can't prove infringement.


If a digital font file is used as a source, it's probably too much work for the thief to erase all traces of that --- whether or no it should be acceptable to re-create a typeface design w/o crediting the original designer and adhering to their intent in terms of licensing and distribution is a different discussion.


If I were going to knock it off I'd duplicate the splotching exactly, too. I'd prepare as sample as a bitmap, use any of the various raster-to-vector tracers on it to get an SVG, clean up the SVG of any conversion artifacts, then make it into a type format. (Heck, there's probably a fun problem in here to train an algorithm to do the cleanup and conversion. You could probably knock-off the hinting and ligatures, too.)


XBAND Rough could not have been inspired by those ads, as the OP shows the ads are using XBAND, and not FF Confidential, the original tyepface it cloned.


We don’t know what the ads (meaning, the videos) used. We only know what was on their website.


If it were the same file, it wouldn't be a "knock-off." It would be something like Optifonts. Very frowned upon, but definitely not illegal. Also, the kerning is usually trash, there will be way too many nodes in the vectors, and things may be missing. Annoying to work with, but in the case of Optifonts, free (because they're long out of business.)

http://abfonts.freehostia.com/opti/

https://luc.devroye.org/fonts-27506.html


Maybe not in the US, but fonts do enjoy copyright protection in at least some European markets.[1] I frequently encountered this campaign on DVDs for rent in the local Blockbuster equivalents, so I don't think it is entirely theoretical infringement, either.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protecti... and forward


FACT/FAST are a UK organisation, where font copyright is espressly enumerated in the copyright law.


They absolutely are copyrighted and big money.


In the US you can't copyright the shape of a font. You can copyright the programmatic description of a font.

Design patents have been awarded for fonts. Trademark and trade dress protections could apply to the specific use of a font but not the font itself. The name of a font itself can be protected by trademark, as well.

It's kind of a fascinating topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protecti...

Edit: Back in the mid-90s versions of Corel Draw came with a Truetype editor. A friend of mine made "knock off" versions of fonts they liked from magazines, etc, and made them freely available on his ISP-provided web space. They drew them by hand, using printed samples as the inspiration.

Over the years they got some angry messages from a few "type people" who didn't like that they'd made freely available knock-offs of various fonts. (I remember that "Keedy Sans" is one they knocked-off and got a particularly angry email about.)

Further aside: My fiend made a sans serif typeface that has a distinct pattern of "erosion" at the edges and voids within the letters. It's easy to tell when it's the font he made. For the last 30 years I've kept samples of the various places I've seen it used, both on the Internet and on physical articles. I find it so amazing that a TTF file made by a kid in Corel Draw in 1994 or 1995 ended up being used in advertisements, on packaging, etc.


In the 90s Corel Draw came with a Helvetica named Swiss. Microsoft wasn't as bold and called theirs Arial.


Corel's "Swiss" font is identical to Helvetica. Arial has many differences.


But you can Copyright the Name of a font. But yes long standing rule says you can copyright how letters & numbers look. Note that if you make a font that contains your own “artwork’ that does not represent a letter or number you can get protection for that.

And only fairly recently (in the past 30 years—I forget when Adobe won this court case) the courts ruled you can protect the code for generating a fonts look from being copied.


You can't copyright the name of a font in the US. You can trademark it.


> In the US you can't copyright the shape of a font. You can copyright the programmatic description of a font.

The organization in question is a UK organization, and you can in fact copyright a font in the UK. The US is unrelated to this issue.


You can, entirely legally, make a copy of any font and distribute it freely.

You can't copy the font files themselves, but you can make visually indistinguishable new fonts with the same shapes because the shapes are not protected by copyright.

Additionally though, some fonts have design patents, which does protect the shape. Unlike copyright which has absolutely crazy expiration (like 150 years occasionally?) these patents only cover 15 to 20 years or shorter if abandoned.

An example of Apple patenting a font valid 2017 to 2032: https://patents.google.com/patent/USD786338S1/en


So if I already have the file (legally acquired or not), I'm free to use it for print? Cause obviously distributing T-shirts isn't distributing font files?


It depends on if it has a design patent on it or not.


In the US, yes.


"You wouldn't copyright a font"


You can copyright just about anything as long as you have the _money_

T-Mobile trademarked a very specific pink, "Magenta"

There’s even a company that holds trademarks on a set of colors, Pantone.

Courts have yet to reverse or revoke these silly trademarks.


T-Mobile does not have a trademark on the color magenta, nor does Pantone on any colors.

The trademark is for using that color to market your product such that a buyer might assume they are buying T-mobile, but in reality they are not.

Or for Pantone, that a buyer is buying a color quality controlled by Pantone.


Trademark and copyright are not the same thing..


Trademark != copyright.


> was itself arguably a copyright-infringing knock-off.

In US law, there is no such thing. The shape of a glyph (or many) isn't even slightly copyrightable. This is settled law. Fonts (on computers) have a special status that makes them semi-copyrightable in that some jackass judge from the 1980s called them "computer programs" and so they have the same protection as software... but this won't protect against knockoffs.


Well they're programs tbf


Is this fair? It actually takes a lot of work (I assume) to design letter's shapes. Of course, not counting those who just trace 16-th century font without paying a compensation.


> takes a lot of work

The "sweat of the brow" argument is not valid in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat_of_the_brow


>Under the Feist ruling in the US, mere collections of facts are considered unoriginal and thus not protected by copyright, no matter how much work went into collating them.

This person isn't just collecting existing letter shapes; inventing a new letter shapes would be protected by copyright?


You aren't inventing a new letter shapes - letters already exist. You are modifying how they look, and that's not considered creative enough.

There are lots of things that can't be copyrighted.

For example you can't copyright an anatomy drawing: https://www.skeletaldrawing.com/licensing (i.e. the layout of the bones, etc) but you can copyright your specific drawing - but someone else could draw in the same style and not violate your copyright.

Same here: You can't copyright the shape of the letters, but you can copyright you specific ttf program (expression), but someone else can make the same letter shapes if they want.


You can say the same about drawing of a cat: you are not inventing new animal here. But for some weird reason cats are copyrighted and letters are not.

There are many ways to draw the same letter, as there are many ways to draw a cat.

Also if one draws letters that look like cats, will they fall under copyright protection?


If someone draws a cat, and the next person draws basically the same cat, there is no copyright infringement.

You need something "extra", some kind of style that is distinct.

I'm not saying your drawing has no copyright - it does, if someone reproduces it exactly that's illegal. I'm saying if someone makes the same type of drawing, in the same style, that's not infringement - even if they looked at yours, as long as they drew it themselves.


> inventing a new letter shapes would be protected by copyright?

It is settled law that letter shapes aren't copyrightable. Period.


> Of course, not counting those who just trace 16-th century font without paying a compensation

I can't tell which way you mean this, but that sounds similar to the situation with most public domain musical compositions - the manuscripts may be completely open but a specific typesetting can still under copyright. And like that case, "just" tracing a font / typesetting a composition is still a fair amount of work.


Who are you paying for a 400-year old font? Who deserves to get paid for a 400-year old font?


They are computer programs. Not sure why you’d crudely insult the judge for saying that.


Are fonts really programs? Is a digital image file also a program?

A font file is more like a config that’s used by your OS to render something, there’s no real interactivity in fonts (except some ligatures but those are just static tables, right?).


TrueType, which has been around since the 80s, includes a full Turing-complete instruction set for hinting: https://developer.apple.com/fonts/TrueType-Reference-Manual/...


This is sophistry. Does anyone write apps in ttf? Can I download a calendar app? Has anyone even cranked out some proof of concept?

Fonts aren't software in any meaningful sense of the word.


We’re talking about copyright here. A typeface on its own isn’t copyrightable. The judge ruled that turning a typeface into a digital font involves writing a nontrivial computer program, which is a creative work under US copyright law. That simply is true. It doesn’t matter whether you can write “apps” in TrueType; you can write digital fonts in it.



Fonts aren't just programs, they can contain and run an entire AI model to give you access to an LLM in any program running Harfbuzz: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40766791

I would say that counts as interactivity.


Yes. And they're also copyrightable.

That's why this shit is so stupid.


Many things are copyrightable that shouldn't be. When you can spend millions of dollars lobbying Congress to get them to extend copyright protections beyond reason, that tends to happen.

In the United States, it is settled precedent that typefaces are not copyrightable. That doesn't change just because they became digital in 1984.




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