Is this really true? The margin must be huge. I've seen 4K smart tv's for half the price of 4k monitors.

In 2019 the Vizio CEO went on the record saying there was no money in dumb TVs. They sell near cost and make it all up in ads and metrics.

https://boingboing.net/2019/01/11/telescreens-r-us.html

I've had a little insight into this world. To make the BOM costs work at the retail prices they charge for things like common set-top streaming boxes (e.g. Roku) and, now, TVs themselves since they incorporate the same stuff, they have to be selling data. Otherwise they're selling at a loss, once you factor in middleman margins and such.

You can try to compete by charging a reasonable amount for your hardware and software, but you'll be competing against economy of scale and wrestling for shelf-space with products that are (don't forget retail percentage mark-up) at least 30% cheaper than yours, which means your units don't move, which means you don't get (or keep) shelf space, and hello death spiral. Also if you somehow manage to make it despite that, as soon as an MBA gets in charge you'll just switch to selling data, too.

Or you buy an Apple TV, that’s priced appropriately with its capabilities and doesn’t thieve everything from your network and your house.

I only didn’t mention that because I’m not sure how much spying they do. I’d bet it’s a lot less, but probably still too much.

But yes, that’s what I have, two of them in fact. Tried a Shield, sucked, should have just gone straight for Apple TV instead of trying to pinch pennies.

A follow up question is, what does the transaction look like. Bulk DB dump or JSON files per person, spreadsheet, that would be interesting like race, interests, budget...

You'll be plugging your AppleTV into that data collecting TV device because you won't pay more for it.

I don’t allow my smart tvs on the network. They complain a bit but they work.

It's completely true.

Looking at Vizio's financial records[0], the numbers make it clear.

They seperate everything into 2 distinct businesses, Device and Platform+.

Device represents their hardware business of selling physical TVs and soundbars. Platform+ covers all of their other "software-related" business, mainly consisting of ad delivery and selling user data to third parties.

2019:

- Device Net Revenue = $1.7 billion

- Device Gross Profit = $125 million

- Platform+ Net Revenue = $63 million

- Platform+ Gross Profit = $40 million

2023:

- Device Net Revenue = $1.0 billion

- Device Gross Profit = -($8.6 million)

- Platform+ Net Revenue = $598 million

- Platform+ Gross Profit = $364 million

So over the course of just 4 years:

- hardware revenue is down 40% and is actually losing money (confirms they are indeed selling the TVs at a loss)

- Ad/user data revenue, however, is up almost ten-fold (+949%)

- total gross profits of the two combined are up over 54%

[0] https://investors.vizio.com/financials/quarterly-results/def...

TVs usually have lower requirements regarding frame rate and latency compared to computer monitors. That's probably also a factor.

Probably more to do with the economies of scale. More TVs are sold than PC monitors so therefore cheaper.