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Is that based on any evidence? I'm not familiar enough with the situation to know what the causes are, but I am aware of the long long history of scapegoating immigrants for any and all problems, so I'm inherintly a bit skeptical of that assumption.


Unfortunately, the opposite effect of being afraid to acknowledge crime by immigrants is also present. It looks like the government is unwilling to publish data that would resolve that question but here are some clues from Wikipedia [1]:

"58% of men convicted of rape and attempted rape over the past five years were immigrants born outside of the European Union"

"of 100 suspects of murder and attempted murder using firearms, 90 had one parent born abroad"

"Most of the increase is related to gang violence in vulnerable areas in Sweden which are areas with [...] a large immigrant population"

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden


If you take men from the dark ages and drop them into a deeply secular and free society you are asking for problems. It took Europe a century to leave Christianity behind.


I think we have different ideas of what it means to leave Christianity behind.

The Church of Sweden was the state church until 2000. I think the monarch is still required to be Lutheran.

The Evangelical-Lutheran Church in Denmark is the state church of Denmark.

The King of Norway was the head of the Church of Norway until 2012, and "separation ... remains incomplete" quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway .

Spain didn't separate church and state until the 1970s.

Ireland gave special status to the Catholic Church until the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution Act 1972, and Church influence over schooling remains an issue.

Charles III is the titular head of the Church of England.

"In 1984, following a revised accord with the Vatican, Catholicism lost its status as the official religion of the Italian state[3] and Italy became a secular state." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Italy

Monaco de-secularized in 2020 and now Catholic Christianity is the state church.


None of these threaten you with death if you do want to leave them, or won't even join.

This is the essence of secularism, take it, or leave it, we don't really care that much.

That is not the case in all these Goatfuckistans.

It may have been the case in Turkiye for a time, in theory, but not so much anymore (in practice) with Muslimbrotherhood Erdolf.


Your comment seems to have nothing to do with the statement "It took Europe a century to leave Christianity behind."

Instead, you seem to be using it as a stepping stone for your own grievances and vile bigotry.


I've been trying to show you that states having an official church of state, or religion doesn't exclude the concept of 'secularism', if that is mainly to be understood as the possibility to live ones life free of that, without too much trouble.

The thing is in most islamic states that's not a given. Especially abandoning Islam itself.

That's an absolute NO-GO in most of them, because the 'noble' Quran forbids it, by penalty of death. Even if some of these states don't employ this literally, they do nothing to reign in their fanatics, harassing the heretics, because shrug, it's their own fault.

Do you know people who did this, abandoning Islam, and how they have to live, even far abroad, because of that?

You may point to Dubai, but I think it's a big sham, mostly attracting 'soldiers of fortune', to make it look good.

What is vile here is the 'nobleness' of the Quran, and how it is used to justify the 'viralness' of it. It's a thing favouring the development of behavior equal to rabies.

I don't like rabies.

Why do you?


And I'm calling you out for your overt bigotry, and pointing out that what you want to talk about has nothing to do with the topic.

I am well aware of the issues in theocratic rule, in multiple Abrahamic branches, and in non-Abrahamic religions.

That doesn't at all explain what "leave Christianity behind" is supposed to mean. When did Europe start that process?


> When did Europe start that process?

Why is that so important to you? For me it's irrelevant, because I could have left that behind as soon as I got aware of that sillyness.

Which I actually didn't until a few years later, because of 'opportunity costs'.

Took me 2 hours ping-ponging between desks in different offices, because loss of taxes, which federal government, state, county, city, and church did not want.

But that was all. No further harassment.

As far as I know, this has been the case in most of Europe for several hundreds of years, in one way or another. I have some doubts regarding Portugal, Spain, Italy, Ireland and Poland in these matters and timing, but not much more.

In most if not all islamic countries someone would have put a Fatwa on me, like I was rabid, for that percieved heresy.

Just being able to say: "No, I don't want this! Leave me alone!" is how it should be, overriding any other concern.

If you don't get this and expect me to refute every single point of your pedantry into all eternity, you're riding a dead horse as in the german word "Paragraphenreiter".

( https://dict.leo.org/german-english/Paragraphenreiter )

I won't do that.

I don't care.

I won't even agree to disagree, as politeness would dictate.

There is no politeness in this for me, just zero tolerance.


> It took Europe a century to leave Christianity behind

Maybe you should make a visit. Or do you mean, behind the corner ? (see Notre Dame for the most recent example)




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