It’s about having a head start in the pecking order game for any room you walk into, work or social or otherwise. It’s about people moving out of your way on the sidewalk instead of the other way around. It’s about people showing respect and going the extra mile at the airline counter or the retail store.

There are a lot of subtle benefits that people probably don’t want to readily acknowledge

More likely to signify who is or isn't the asshole.

If you were always moving out of the way when you were smaller, because you had to, is it so noble? If it isn’t truly a choice to?

Becoming attractive unlocks doors in the world that were previously locked. It’s always up to the individual what they do with them

There are other ways to be precieved as dangerous. Appearing to be dangerous is the real choice. Having the image of being bigger/stronger can actually have negative effects as well when considering things like what level of force is considered justified against you, other people seeking to prove dominace just due to your threatening appearance, etc.

"Becoming attractive unlocks doors in the world that were previously locked."

Not really. Sure it would help in certain things like mate selection, being an OF model, etc. Maybe you get slightly more courteous treatment. But it's not really opening doors that couldn't be opened in other ways. Not to mention that being attractive does not require big muscles. There are other ways to achieve that.

On the second point, may I ask do you have big muscles?

Muscles and attractiveness might have made my situation slight better in some ways (like dating), but it hasn't made up for social inadequacy. There are many people who are less attractive who have gone further in their careers etc with better social skills and such. So there are multiple angles to get ahead. Being physically attractive doesn't hurt, but I think being attractive in other ways is more important.

(1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County_Jail

I grew up in Atlanta and I lived in Chicago for awhile. From my personal experience, and the stats back me up, Atlanta is worse for violent crimes. The worst thing that happened in Chicago was someone broke into my car when I wasn't home. In Atlanta I was stabbed when I wouldn't hand over my wallet.

Through sheer luck during my youth I didn't end up dead or in prison.

I get what you're saying, but the subtext is the weak are less noble because they can be pushed around. Feels like punching down.

> Becoming attractive unlocks doors in the world that were previously locked.

Much better framing.

I'm about to hit 40, and I'm definitely more motivated by being healthier in 20 years, than I am by random strangers lusting for me. (I mean, it's nice to have my spouse lust after me, but turns out she does that with my current body.)

Being able to get up off the ground quickly or drag the kids around on a sled is also nice.

form and recovery count for a lot, people!

Being fit definitely has its social benefits in romance, but it isn't the reason I go when it's far below freezing out at 730 in the morning.

Research also backs this. That the people who keep going find ways to enjoy it and not for the long term hope of losing weight or looking fit.

If I could make a single change in my life 20 years ago, it would be getting into a gym habit. I tried back then, but had both horrible trainers (the "puke and rally" bro type) and friends who didn't have a clue about what they were doing. It all seemed pointless to me unless immense effort was put in. I also worked landscape and came from a blue collar family background where working out was seen as a sign of bougieness - who needs to pay to go work out if you work hard all day?

But this year (at age 42) I got a personal trainer at a local gym and started going once a week. She is great, and matches my personality and style to the workouts. I never realized how quickly and easily you can start seeing results - and that feedback loop can be quite addictive.

I can't say I look forward to going into the gym now, but I at least don't dread it. Once I'm there and halfway through my routine I'm quite happy I went, and it really does impact your mood and emotional state probably much more than I even want to admit as I type this. It's hard to realize you went through most of your life ignoring such a major component of success - basically playing life on hard mode for no particular reason.

The gym is also interesting in that you can be having a real shitty unproductive day - but you go in and get your routine done - and you can still feel accomplished. Bad week at work? At least you still got your 3 workouts in and are 2% stronger than last month.

They've all been, almost to a person, incredibly welcoming and eager to help. It's more often the casual exercisers that are a problem, if anything.

The reason could be addiction.

My point is simply that just because you do something compulsively, does not make that thing an addiction. E.g. breathing is compulsive, but it's not an addiction.

They exist, and endorphins are using the addiction biological framework.

Regardless, exercise people.

We don't have a biological framework for addiction, we have a framework for building routines and healthy habits. The system is incredibly beneficial and we'd do ourselves a great disservice not utilizing that system to improve our health and lifestyle.

Again, I'm fairly sure we all understand what you're saying, but I find there's a great deal of cumulative power in the language/framing we use day-in and day-out and I believe my characterization isn't just optimistic, but more accurate.

yeah, we do. and it involves neurotransmitters.

"addiction" may not be the right word in this (workout) context, but it's a well established concept in other contexts.

You can learn to enjoy pushing yourself in this way. To an outsider it can look like you're hooked on it, or that it is easy to make the choice every time.

this should not be discounted -- a lot of studies back up the anti-depressant effects of regular exercise. i find it's the closest i get to a 'moment of zen'.

To be honest, I’ve been doing it for 6 years (38M) and I only do it for health reasons. Sex, daily activities, I can do whatever just fine and usually with better performance. I don’t go pushing myself to the max, dead lifting Earth; just enough to (if I can) force myself a bit more and to keep me in shape and keep this strength that has helped me so much already. I don’t do no preaching, nor do I want to be in a strength competition, nor do I do it for attracting partners.

Good things come easier when you feel better yourself (confidence) and you can actually back some of those things up.

I think this dismisses a large portion (possibly the majority) of people who exercise. There are major mental health benefits, it provides structure, it’s fun, etc.

If the only reason people work out is for aesthetics then everybody would just be a bodybuilder. But there’s a huge swath of sport and modalities people pursue instead.

That makes an assumption that majority of the population thinks that bodybuilder physique is the most attractive one. If you are optimizing for aesthetics, imo the maxed out bodybuilding physique is both very difficult to achieve and isn’t going to optimize for most-liked aesthetic.

Out of bodybuilders i personally know, it is either about the challenge or going for the aesthetics that they themselves like and want (all while being very aware that it isn’t necessarily what most people like, and that’s valid).

That’s just a small nitpick though, fully agreed with the entirety of the rest of your comment.

You're assuming that the body builder aesthetic is everyones desired aesthetic, it's not.

Also, working out for your health and working out to be more attractive are not mutually exclusive things. I'd argue they're the same thing, and even if you disagree, it's still reasonable for a large numebr of individuals to cite both health and aesthetics as their motivation/reasoning.

I'm not, it was just an example. I can't edit, but you're right this could be more clear. What I mean is that if aesthetics is the only goal then people would exercise optimizing for aesthetics exclusively.

> Also, working out for your health and working out to be more attractive are not mutually exclusive things. I'd argue they're the same thing, and even if you disagree, it's still reasonable for a large numebr of individuals to cite both health and aesthetics as their motivation/reasoning.

This is a strawman. I didn't say exercise is only for health, nor did I even imply it. I said that health can be a primary motivator. That said, I'd still disagree with your statement.

Someone who is diagnosed with diabetes and changes their lifestyle to be more active and eat better might get the benefit of looking better after some time, but I'm pretty sure their primary motivation is to not die. Remember, OP claimed the real reason people work out "is to look good".

But you're ignoring a lot of people who simply want to see what the human body is capable of, or just have fun, or any other number of motivators. Someone who runs ultra marathons, doing bodybuilding shows, powerlifting, etc. surely is more interested in testing their limits possibly at the expense of their health/aesthetics.

Or sometimes people just want to play basketball because it's just exceptionally fun.

In that case, apologies for misunderstanding, and agreed fully. I was saying the same.

The only part of your comment I disagreed with was the assertion I took issue with up top, which we've already covered was a miscommunication on our part. The rest of it was supporting what you said.

> I didn't say exercise is only for health, nor did I even imply it.

You aren't the only one in this comment chain, and the topic is the dichotomy between the motivating factors of aesthetics vs health in exercising for fitness, thus why I zeroed in on that, using your prior example and the implication therein to highlight that said dichotomy is not exclusive. we already addressed that as a miscommunication though rather than an actual disagreement.

In other words, I was agreeing. And despite you saying you disagree with me, you immediately go on to substantiate that point with the diabetic having multiple justifications for exercising: There's more than one reason to exercise, and they aren't exclusionary.

I am happily married for over 15 years and enjoy not being a couch potato for my wife. And of course, being fit helps a lot with your sex life besides the aesthetics aspect of it.

Having said that, doing weight training or other kinds of exercise is really hard when kids are young and consume 98% of your time. Maybe in a couple of years I can start doing this seriously instead of ad-hoc. Hopefully still in time to combat the decline.

Going from morbidly obese to the mid-range of the normal weight BMI chart in about 6mo time has been absolutely eye opening for me.

It's less about sex than it is about appeal. I don't care so much about being desirable to the opposite sex these days - but the impact of being considered conventionally attractive in pretty much all social contexts is profound.

There certainly is an impact from self confidence, but it cannot explain the whole difference. Humans simply treat people they find attractive differently than those they do not.

I'm unconvinced. Visit any gym and you'll see that very few people are attractive and certainly no larger a percentage than the general population.

any suggestion?

Thank you, very politically aware of you, however, I am in good shape but do not feel the members of my desired sex lusting for me, please elaborate on how to induce this lust in the desired sex, diameter of biceps, visible abs? What is required of the facial geometry? Thank you, can barely ;) wait to be lusted for.