The biggest thing I have found to keep in love is kindness. Sure, I could come up with a cutting, sarcastic rejoinder in on something my spouse says, but that would be unkind and cause pain.
If you look at the list presented, there is vitriol in pretty much every question. Don’t do that.
Also, along the same lines as kindness, never speak ill of your spouse or put them down in front of anyone. Be their biggest fan.
Speak kindly. Act kindly. No matter how you feel, make it a habit. This will go a long way towards a good, long-lasting relationship.
I was told before getting married that the single most dangerous thing to a relationship is contempt, and that if you want the marriage to last, never tolerate contempt from either person.
That has turned out to be very good advice. Every now and then one of us will have a moment, we'll say something contemptuous, and the other will call it out immediately. Because we both had that understanding, right off the bat, it's like this escape hatch to conflict that cuts things off before they become hurtful.
Keeping "the spark alive" I think is difficult with kids. Really, you need quality time alone together, which becomes very hard to get. I think to some degree one of the important things beyond the "no contempt" rule is to remember that one of the greatest gifts you can give your child is a healthy and loving family, and in that you can start to find a new respect for your partner as the fellow parent of your child. There can be a really special camaraderie where you're "in it together" doing this difficult job of raising a young child.
It does get easier as the kids get bigger. 9-18 months is pretty difficult, but it's partially offset because after age 1 they start being so much more interesting, and by 2 the personality is really developed and a lot of fun.
As a parent of 2 boys (just under 2 & just over 4 year olds), I would say the hard part began at ~18 months with both our kids. Our oldest is now already much easier than he was a year or 2 ago.
first year was the easiest with both - the only real difficulty was the sleep deprivation.
What I've seen is relationships where one or both people are displaying contempt for each other, either end or worse continue.
Merging the child rearing culture from two families is often a source of friction. Personally I think a lot of that is over things that don't matter as children are pretty adaptable.
And yeah it usually gets progressively easier after kids get to school age.
I once translated these to Dutch and made a "nested" slide deck of these using reveal.js so I could display these large and nicely on a smartphone and could navigate them by swiping. I put the slideshow on my webserver and printed and the QR code to the domain on an index card. Then I took my girlfriend, who is now my wife, on a date to a nice restaurant and gave her the index card.
We knew each other for quite some time but that night we got to know each other even better. It was a lovely night.
Yes, this, absolutely but I need to add that this works only if there is reciprocity. There are bad dynamics out there where one is kind and the other simply takes but does not give back
Not OP, but I agree completely (even though I find it hard)! Really. Never. It will never, ever give you any benefit at all to speak ill of your spouse. It will give you nothing to act unkindly. It will only cause your spouse to feel justified in doing the same.
As the other poster said, there are times when you should walk away from situations. There are healthy relationships and there are unhealthy relationships. If you honestly don't believe that the relationship can be a healthy one, it's time to leave. Especially if you are suffering from any kind of abuse in the relationship and you have unsuccessfully tried to resolve it, don't hesitate. Don't make or accept excuses. Heck, don't feel you even need to resolve the issue if you are getting serious abuse. Just leave.
There is no reason to retaliate in any way. Doing so will hurt you as well. The situation is what it is. You can explain the situation, explain your feelings and leave it at that. Or if you can't safely explain things (for fear of retaliation from the other side), then just leave without an explanation. Start the healing process immediately. Don't start a knife fight and then crawl away even more wounded.
For smaller issues, I've found (much to my dismay) that if my wife is doing something that hurts me, she is completely unaware that it hurts me. Even if it obvious to me that it should be hurtful, it's not obvious to her. If I'm snarky about it, then she is hurt. Now it is doubly hard to improve the situation. If she is not hurt, then it is relatively easy to have a non-confrontational conversation about what happened. I control all of the hurt feelings, because they are mine. If she is hurt, then I have to rely on her to work out her feelings in addition to listening to my problems. It very rarely works out well.
I find hard to believe there is no appropriate time to be harsh with your partner and that there is no middle ground between being nice no matter what or leave.
Yes, no need to do it in public period. People who do it in public have some agenda of implicating the public and diminishing the image of the shamed in front of the public and getting allies. Who does that? People high on narcisistic traits. This is a red flag if it happens regularly.
This New Yorker piece is a comical riposte to the NY Times article cited in the epigraph. I remember the original Times article well because it was discussed here on Hacker News and inspired this extraordinary comment recommending its own version of a follow-up study, one involving a video camera, 20 photographs with multiple-choice descriptions of smells, and a "treatment room":
This seems to be a humor piece, but it honestly just makes me sad. My only feeling is that I wish I hadn't read it. Maybe this resonates differently to someone else?
It got me the same way at first. But then I realized that the questions simply bring out the essence of being human, the same flaws and insecurities that most people feel. That had me feeling that we’re all connected on a human level through good and bad, diminishing the importance of the issues one might have in a relationship. That was my take away from those annoying questions, anyway.
I was thinking yesterday about how even if you don't agree with someones way of thinking, it can still be useful to understand it. People might use different words, and structure their explanations in different ways, but they responding to and trying to rationalize their experience of the same underlying wetware. looking at the way other people try to explain human nature can help reveal things about the experience of being human.
Perhaps. I can't imagine sniping at my significant other like that. We state plainly what we mean as best we can and always try to argue in good faith. This caricature of a communication breakdown is more grotesque than relatable.
I scrolled through the questions out of curiosity and for some people I can only see this backfiring catastrophically. Personally I wouldn't be able to not be sarcastic about a number of them. And some I wouldn't be able to answer at all, for example:
> Take four minutes and tell your partner your life story in as much detail as possible. I already know that story. And I was there for that one. It didn’t happen like that.
I'm sorry but there are good chunks of my life I really don't want to remember or discuss: I honestly don't want to talk about the moment I learned that my best friend since I could walk or talk had died. Or the following several years of my life. Just one example...
What in the world is the point of this? These aren't questions to make a couple ask each other, it's just forcing them to say mean things to each other. For example:
> O.K., fine, I’m adding your dishwasher issue to my list of irritating things, too. So there.
>I already know that story. And I was there for that one. It didn’t happen like that.
Those are not questions, that's a statement.
I can make a couple fall out of love by forcing them to ask only one "question": "Do you love me? No you don't, I hate you and I'm breaking up with you".
I have been on the internet too long today to have an immediately cynical view of it. On second viewing I did appreciate this one as it sticks to the theme of asking questions:
>What would constitute a “perfect” day for you? Why do we always just go home and watch Netflix instead of doing any of that stuff?
I do think it would have made a bit more sense as satire if the author had stuck to only questions such as this, but perhaps I'm just nitpicking.
> What would constitute a “perfect” day for you? Why do we always just go home and watch Netflix instead of doing any of that stuff?
Ouch that hits close. But really the answer is that we prefer Netflix over the other options.
There’s a lot to be said about finding comfort in each other’s company after a long day and not needing anything else. Just be together and enjoy a good story. It’s great
I suspect this is a thing in a relationship when one of them suddenly comprehends their own mortality and starts to think they should have more ambition for their outside work life. It can go either way, the nihilism of Netflix or suddenly all your time and money is on needless "travel" to check out what McDonalds and people watching Netflix at home is like somewhere else.
And boggling at the endless "...why in the world would they think that we'd like that? 97% match?! Because we liked X, we'll like its antithesis?"
Algorithmic recommendations are entertainment in their own right sometimes. And it helps you realize that the robot uprising is a looooooooong way away.
Netflix eventually becomes code for "I have literally nothing else to do". That's when it may be useful to find something else to do with your partner; it easily becomes a rut in which to be stuck.
Honestly I skimmed through at first and thought these were the intimacy promoting questions and I found them to be very good because they are so focused on blunt honesty that one probably will discover a couple of truthful things of beauty about their partner. But apparently these are intimacy discouraging :S.
"Given the choice of anyone in the world, whom would you like to punch in the face?"
My sparring partners.
"On average, how long do you spend composing tweets before you post them? Do you realize that they don’t matter?"
I don't have a twitter account.
"Before responding to a text, do you wait a few minutes to make it seem like you’re doing something more important? Why? Answer me now."
Yes, because otherwise people unconsciously start taking you for granted.
"What would constitute a “perfect” day for you? Why do we always just go home and watch Netflix instead of doing any of that stuff?"
Being together.
"What’s your favorite song? No, it’s not. I’ve never once heard you listen to that song."
World in my eyes. She likes Depeche Mode too.
"Honestly, which one of us would you rather have die first?"
Her, so that she doesn't have to miss me.
"So you want me to be the one who becomes a burden to our children and then dies alone?"
No, I want ME to be the one who dies alone and her the one who dies loved.
"Name three things you find irritating about your partner."
Actually, we just discussed one today and are making steps to deal with it.
"Why do we even have a dishwasher if you insist on thoroughly scrubbing the dishes before putting them in? O.K., fine, I’m adding your dishwasher issue to my list of irritating things, too. So there."
This only seems to happen with American dishwashers. For whatever reason, they never manage to clean if there's visible food on the plates.
"If you could change anything about your partner’s family, what would it be?"
For her stepfather to still be alive.
"Take four minutes and tell your partner your life story in as much detail as possible. I already know that story. And I was there for that one. It didn’t happen like that."
We all remember things differently. That's half the fun :)
"Why did you send me a link to this Times article if you didn’t want us to go through the questions together?"
That's precisely why I sent it.
"Between you and your partner, who is the better gift-giver?"
Her.
"What is your most treasured memory? I was there for that one. It definitely didn’t happen like that."
Doesn't matter. She was there and that's what counts.
"What is your most horrible memory? No, “Right now, answering these questions” doesn’t count."
When she went missing and I thought I'd lost her.
"Is there something that you’ve dreamed of doing for a long time but haven’t done because you know your partner wouldn’t like it?"
Nope. We're secure enough in our relationship to do some things alone out of consideration for the other.
"Don’t pin that on me. You know we don’t have to do everything together, right?"
Absolutely.
"What do you want to do for dinner?"
Stay home, eat Kartoffelgratin, and play Killing Floor 2 together.
"If you knew we were getting dinner tonight, why would you eat a cupcake at five? All I’ve had to eat today is a cup of soup and, like, eight almonds."
Oops, sorry.
"Take turns going to the bathroom with nothing but a thin, not at all soundproof door separating you from your partner. Just sit there and hear it all."
Sure, that's our daily life anyway.
"What do you want to watch tonight?"
Das Boot. One more episode till end of season!
"Are you going to fall asleep in the middle of the episode again?"
Maybe. She might also. Some episodes we've watched halfway through 5 times :P
"I’m not the one making us answer these questions. Do you want to stop?"
Nope, I'm good.
"Do you not think our relationship is strong enough to handle these questions?"
Yup.
"How do you feel about your partner’s relationship with his or her mother?"
It's been strengthening over the years, and that's good.
"Oh, like your mother is so much better?"
She gave birth to me, gracing God's earth with me. So yeah :)
"Share a tube of toothpaste with your partner."
Sure.
"Why are you not squeezing from the bottom? Are you a monster?"
Because I like to torment her.
"Tell your partner which celebrities you find attractive."
I'm not good at knowing who people are so I can't name names, but in general 90% of celebrities are attractive by design, and don't look that way in real life.
"Why do none of those celebrities look anything like me?"
Because they spend 100k a year on it and have a team of professional photographers and photoshoppers at their service to bend reality.
"Rent a car with your partner and drive while he or she gives directions."
That's what we normally do. Driver side driver, passenger side navigator.
"How am I supposed to get across four lanes in two seconds? You have to tell me the exit earlier."
Oops, sorry.
"Tell your partner something that you like about him or her. Try to think of something. Anything."
She's the most loyal, loving and caring person I've ever met. She even gives dosh away in KF2 to newcomers when she's medic in the early waves!
"Given the choice of anyone in the world, whom would you like to punch in the face?"
> whether the intimacy between two committed partners can be broken down by forcing them to ask each other thirty-six questions no one in a relationship should actually ask
don't read on if you're easily offended by topics of sex - what follows is how a European perceives US/American dating culture. If you get offended by the word "porn" don't read. you've been warned ...
going through the list in this article I'll more likely to fall in love with a partner willing to discuss these. There are actually several deep conversations buried within each question - and I have discussed many of them with my partner. it sounds a bit sad (not to say pathetic) to me if somebody is unable to raise these in a relationship.
maybe I'm strange, in which case what do young couples today talk about?
American dating culture and how it is propagandized in Hollywood serials is very odd to me. I spent a lot of time among Americans at work and also outside work. To me as a European having to ask somebody to go on a date in a formal way is pretty odd. Like you can't just go out for a movie or drinks with the opposite sex and see where it leads? I have never been on a date in my whole life and this article reminds me how sterile and awkward Anglo-Saxon cultures are about sex, dating and relationships.
The English basically can't do it unless they're utterly wasted (exaggerating but there is truth here!).
American's can't do it unless they constantly talk about "daddy this" and "daddy that" -> what's up with this pedopheliac insinuations that are everywhere from old books such as The Great Gatsby to The Boardwalk Empire (it's not new that Americans like to call their man daddy).
If I just started making out with a woman and she calls me daddy I'd be so grossed out I'd be heading for the door. Also if you look at porn (and the US is the biggest producer here) you can see what they think gets clicks: suggestions of individual A does it with their "step-daughter" and violence is the norm. Americans can't get off unless there is violence (--> this is very different to Italian or French porn).
Generally Americans have some rather strange rules of what to ask on date number #1 then date #2 ... and then 3 months later women expect some conversation about where this is going. E.g. a couple constantly have to move "forward". I've had an American gf - her constant blubbering and her inability to just enjoy the silence together was what killed it. I never understood if it was out of insecurity that she was never able to shut up - but meeting many of the years it's more the norm with both sexes than the exception. Like they have to constantly open their mouth even they got nothing to say to remind themselves that they're still ok and to mask their insecurity.
I'm going off on a tangent but this article reminded me of all that. considering the article isn't a joke it just drives home even more how pathetic and sterile US dating culture is. I mean if you can't discuss your deepest and darkest with your SO why not just get a dog? why bother at all with such a farce?
This trope of "as a member of the superior European culture, America is strange because..." is really tiring, and as an American that has spent years living in various European countries, almost always flat-out wrong and inaccurate. I assure you, European countries have some cultural practices that appear just as strange or backwards to Americans.
Your post is a perfect example: you have chosen a grab-bag of behaviors and traits from a very diverse group of people (329,227,746), thrown them together, and said "Look how weird these people are!"
oh don't get me started on Europeans, as a European I can guarantee you that we are as backwards in many ways even more so. there are many progressive elements among US culture but it's not what this article reminds me of (even more skurille that it's posted on HN since it has no value in psychology or philosophy). your comment is whataboutism but I can understand why it may offend (although offense wasn't my intention) I too prefer to be critced by my own tribe rather than an outsider. which is only human. but then it's also false because an immigrant to Europe (or somebody who has never been there) might make better conclusions about my country than those who are in the thick of it.
I can see how the parent comment might come to these conclusions but it’s obvious they haven’t actually lived in the US for very long if at all. Pretending to understand a culture from the outside looking in has been a European pastime for centuries I guess
how can my personal experience with American culture be wrong? it's not like I'm citing something I read but things I have and still experience. I'll leave it at this since there is no point in further discussion if we don't share the same basis/foundation in how we perceive reality.
I'm making generalizations about how America propagandizes its image throughout the world and I provide personal anecdotes on how these stereo-types have become real to me. It isn't how all Americans think nor did I say so. But it's real enough as there is evidence even in classic American literature so that they are as real or unreal as you want them to be (you can only not see them by never reading anything old or new). If you ask somebody to read all the American classics they will stumble upon these themes over and over.
As for grounding in reality I have met my share of Americans who were closer to this stereotype than others. The fact that everyone immediately understands what I'm referring to by mentioning these (American) social norms speaks for itself. There is nothing naughty about it in my thinking - it's a comment of the social norms from an outsider so feel free to ignore them or if they do not match your experience why get offended by it? But once people (like myself) have become aware of them it's hard to not see them.
Saying it's a generalization is a cheap shot when this whole article is pseudo-scientific nonsense that generalizes the shallowness of relationships by insinuating "there are many taboo topics you should never ask your partner". How else can you discuss society or culture without generalization? All of systems-thinking is a generalization and abstraction, it's literally how we reason in the face of complexity.
>I've had an American gf - her constant blubbering and her inability to just enjoy the silence together was what killed it.
Reminds me of that stereotype of the American girl for whom everything is "awesome". OH MY GOD THIS IS AWESOME THAT WAS KINDA LIKE AWESOME HE IS REALLY AWESOME
I don't really know where to start here, so I'll just say that you're probably looking a little too much into how it is "propagandized in Hollywood serials."
If you look at the list presented, there is vitriol in pretty much every question. Don’t do that.
Also, along the same lines as kindness, never speak ill of your spouse or put them down in front of anyone. Be their biggest fan.
Speak kindly. Act kindly. No matter how you feel, make it a habit. This will go a long way towards a good, long-lasting relationship.