When I lived in Austin, a raccoon snuck into my house via the cat door along with two of her kits one night. After giving my cat the fright of his life, she jumped on me from her perch hanging from a corner of my ceiling (!) and scratched me. Insurance company initially didn't want to cover my 10 minute hospital visit and rabbies shots and sent me a bill for around 35k. Then, magically, they decided they would cover it.
I was a grad student at that time making 18k per year - in retrospect, that bill could have truly messed up my life, and it all hinged on the whims of some anonymous insurance company employee. And that raccoon's poor decision-making, I guess.
> "It has been estimated that 7,000–8,000 people per year receive venomous bites in the United States, and about 5 of those people die."
For a more accurate comparison, you would compare this with the number of injuries and deaths from firearms.
> "In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries (23.2 injuries per 100,000 U.S. citizens), and 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" (10.6 deaths per 100,000 U.S. citizens)."
Preferably these would be broken down to separate handgun injuries to be a closer comparison to the stat you provided, but the point stands to illustrate that the comparison you provided muddies more than enlightens.
To bring up statistics like this just muddies the issue, particularly with a hot-button topic like firearm violence. There's a lot more goes into a nuanced discussion than throwing out stats like this.
How many would have died if they weren't treated? Like, to a first approximation, nobody dies of measles any more, but you're not going to see me saying that that means that we don't need to vaccinate against it.
It's a legitimate question, but again, it's only useful if you're going to make the same comparison with handguns: how many more people would have died without medical attention? Are we comparing the lethality of the injury? The incidence of occurrence? The effectiveness of medical care? These are meaningful and important questions.
The numbers alone, without a meaningful comparison with what they mean in their relative context only clouds the picture.
That's fair. It's certainly the case that none of the numbers people have been providing are useful because you can't disentangle causes well enough to use them to support any particular position.
That's 2-3 orders of magnitude fewer than appendectomies, and an order of magnitude fewer than handgun injuries. 7000 rattlesnake bites is 0.002% of the population.
Sure and appendectomies are very expensive. But why do you dismiss the OPs concern for the outrageous cost of anti-venom?
Perhaps because the cost of something as rare, expensive to produce and perishable as anti-venom is sort of justified, whereas a relatively routine operation like and appendectomy is not?
Ok, that's fine. But it still stands that snake bites cost 150K and that's a lot of money!
The number of truly innocent people bitten by venomous snakes in the United States is essentially 0.
99% of them were doing something incredibly stupid and got what was coming to them.
Edit: Why are people downvoting this? Anyone who grew up in an area with snakes should know this is 100% fact. The truth is that there's essentially 0 venomous snake bite danger in the United States whether you're being an idiot or not. You can reduce that even further by simply not being an idiot.
In the past year I had one rattle at me on a hiking trail, and almost walked into one on a paved path that hundreds of people walk on... You're quite wrong.
For a second yeah, i think that's what's supposed to happen.. It rattles, I get scared, I avoid it. nature in action. They're hard to see though. But, if you're in an area with them, it's very possible to be bitten. Definitely rare, but possible.
Because you are blaming the victim. The cost of rattlesnake antivenom is not 150k. So being able to charge that means something is broken in the chain of supply.
People who have a driver's license go through tests and a training program, where they teach the dangers of intoxicated driving.
Most people have not had any such training with regards to hikes and rattlesnakes.
Everyone is going to have a personal list of "really stupid things" others do. You'll find little consensus on these lists, which means they may not be all that stupid.
How does a nation support this kind of tax? And yes, I mean tax because it's essentially an unavoidable redistribution of wealth (where not paying means death penalty) from the poor and sick to the rich. The worst kind of tax. I don't see how that is worse than getting "robbed" of your well earned money to pay for far cheaper universal healthcare.
What's the chance you're going to get one (or several) expensive surgeries done on you in your lifetime? (Where expensive is something as simple as an appendectomy.) Close to 100%? Now add regular medical expenses.
As a total outsider to US economic status: what's the median wage in the US and how expensive is private healthcare compared to it? Also: can you get kicked out of medical insurance if you're deemed too costly for their business?
Yes, I understand the US is probably the best place in the world to get the best medical care... if you can afford it.
>As a total outsider to US economic status: what's the median wage in the US and how expensive is private healthcare compared to it? Also: can you get kicked out of medical insurance if you're deemed too costly for their business?
Obamacare removed the ability to get denied over pre-existing conditions. It was a very real problem not too long ago.
I've been thinking about getting a job in US (San Diego, from Europe), my field, perfect match and all, pay is much better if you compare absolute value in USD but after reading about all that stuff about US it seems like after paying taxes, rent and for everything else I'll end up with jack shit with the risk of bankruptcy if I broke my leg or sth (being sued for some bs etc).
Scary stuff.
But at the same time, my friend is living there (Chicago, I think, northwest for sure) and is doing fine with less than 50k gross a year. I don't know what to believe when I'm reading about US. Internet makes it look like a crazy place to live but is it classical "you only remember failures"/ "if you aren't poor it's fine" or something? What would you (US citizens) advise?
The US is very large and diverse, but here are some general rules of thumb:
1) The US Gov doesn't protect much against extreme cases - that's why health insurance (generally through an employer) is important.
2) America is a very, very hard place to be poor.
3) Living like you see on TV (in NYC, LA, SF, etc, or in a cool downtown loft in an urban neighborhood) is insanely expensive and it's only possible if you design your career and life around it.
4) By trading commute time, "coolness"/novelty of neighborhood, and/or school district, and metro area, you can live well on a very reasonable middle class income. Living in Chicago, Charlotte, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, any big city in Texas or Ohio, avoids the super high cost of coastal cities.
IANAL, but as far as getting into the US, if you can have an employer sponsor you, I believe it's much easier than applying on your own. This ... may not be the easiest time to get into the USA.
Thank you all for your responses, that's definitely reassuring though there seems to be a common theme to avoiding poverty cause it's hard to get back on your feet. Well, that's probably true everywhere so...
By the way, when I was talking about going bankrupt I meant despite having health insurance but often you see cases where the insurance only covers accidents that happened 'while on a red or green bus going no more that 30mph at night, full moon required'. Reductio ad absurdum obviously but I think you know what I mean (probably yet another stereotype I have about US).
This shows another feature of life in America - it depends on which "team" you're on. Working for a large employer, especially with a white collar job, you generally get a better policy. While you're insignificant, your employer (who is buying the insurance and defining the policy) is valuable to the insurer, so you're treated better. Same for if your insurance company is a big player in that metro area - they get pricing power vs hospitals and providers so your coverage and exceptions tend to be better.
The crap insurance with lots of exceptions come a) if you're choosing it yourself and paying low premiums, or b) if your employer is less profitable per employee or you're in a low status job (e.g. Wal-Mart offers worse coverage than Google)
Hmm... this contradicts everything everyone else said in this thread. I mean, everyone says that if you have insurance you have no chance of going bankrupt but it is not enough, you have to be insured for enough money in a first place, which I think might not be possible even for non-poor people and that defeats the purpose. And it's very scam prone...
My apologies in advance if that seems overly critical of US, I understand why it might look like it but, truly, it's one of those things I just cannot grasp about living there and that's why I'm asking questions, no malice intended.
I paid accident claims for over 5 years. Only a tiny percentage were a case of wrong place, wrong time, shit happens. The vast majority were either accidents waiting to happen or policy abuse, where policyholders were essentially scamming the company completely legally to cover routine chiropractic visits.
My mother is German. I have lived in Europe. I will suggest that the fact that you are European will likely inoculate you against a lot of worst case scenarios because normal American practices that promote disease and injury simply are not part of your culture.
Diet plays a very large role in disease. Immigrants don't typically start living off of fast food burgers. They continue eating largely like they did at home.
Europeans tend to drink responsibly. They have wine with dinner or drinks with friends at a pub. The US has rampant addiction problems killing people.
If you don't plan to abandon your current healthy lifestyle habits, suddenly start drinking and driving just because you set foot on US soil and otherwise abandoning all common sense as you have known it for your entire life, you probably don't need to fear that taking an American job will trap you in American medical poverty hell with no hope of escape.
The United States is a wonderful, wonderful place. I've lived in several US states and have worked on temporary visa in foreign nations, so I have something to compare it to.
Yes, healthcare and homes/apartments can be expensive, but there are alternatives for healthcare[0], and you can get cheaper housing if you're outside of big cities.
The flip side is everything else is cheap. Groceries are cheap. Clothes are cheap. Restaurants are cheap. (For lunch today, I had a hearty lunch for $5. And I could go cheaper if I had to.) Home goods are cheap. Cars are cheap.
It's a great place to live. Most of the negative stuff you hear are us wrestling with our problems, when on the whole we're actually extremely fortunate and blessed[1].
If you're healthy and you make a lot of money, America is a great place.
It's a very unforgiving place to be poor and sick, however. When you fall, you go all the way down to the bottom. If you can't make money, you're worthless.
Born and raised in the US. I don't think it's a crazy place to live.
I live off of a relatively small amount, less than 30k per year. I pay my insurance bills and I pay my taxes. Average rent for a studio where I am is ~$900/mo, and I live in a major east coast city.
I get my teeth cleaned every 6 months at the dentist. I have yearly physicals. I was in a car accident and had to go to the ER. That was covered by my auto insurance as well as health insurance.
I never have thought about bankruptcy as an outcome of breaking my leg... how on earth would that happen with insurance?
Moved to the US from Canada. Have lived in ~5 different states over a decade.
The US is a wonderful place to live. Yes, the US does have unique problems that other countries don't, but overall, I would still choose to live her over most other countries (having visited a ton of them).
If you get a job that offers insurance, you'll be fine. Unless you lose the job and don't have the money saved to pay for COBRA or a marketplace plan... So have emergency savings.
Hospitals aren't generally willing to work with people too much.
My uncle had emergency heart surgery. Bill over half a million. They "reduced" it in half. He installed flooring, only making 30K a year... and his doctor told him if he did his work, he could die. Hospital said there was nothing else they could do if he couldn't meet what they said were minimum monthly payments (I think they wanted it paid in less than a year). He filed bankruptcy because of it.
I hear you. My mother-in-law is on dialysis. The starting price before Medicare and her supplemental insurance is $80k/month! When I had crappy insurance with a $9k deductible, my son's insulin was $570 for a 1 months supply of just 1 of the insulins he takes.
You should negotiate with the hospital. You can normally get it down to 10% of the original amount and put on a payment plan. Their first bill is never what they think they'll receive. Its just their opening offer.
There are even services that will help you negotiate it down. (Half the reason for insurance isn't even their coverage - it's the negotiated rates.) Hope this helps you.
Hire a medical bill auditing service, usually the initial consult is free. I don't know which hospital but they will certainly tell you if it's one that is unreasonable and refuses to negotiate.
