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what guys is this? Sounds like an interesting read


This is such a utilitarianistic point of view, Not everyone is defined by their work, not everyone cares about how distinguishable they are from the others, or even how the others think of them, and I would even argue, that very few oligarchs/billionaires etc belong to the group of people that truly enjoy life.


I've been working with scrapers quite a lot. I started with python requests, then to scrapy, then selenium, then selenium via undetected_chromedriver, and once that started being detected during a chrome update about a year ago, I've switched over to seleniumbase. It got by undetected, but to get it working with pre-downloaded drivers, I had to look into the code. I have never, and I mean never, in all my python years, seen such a horrible mess of code. We are talking 1000lines long methods, with 20-30 different flags and branches Just horrible. I have since switched to Playwright, which seems to be also undetected, and offers a much saner interface.


SeleniumBase modifies the webdriver so that it doesn't get detected when used alongside the CDP stealth mode and methods. It'll download chromedriver for you. Not sure what you mean by the multiple branches, as there's just the primary one. What 1000-line methods are you referring to? By "flags", do you mean the different command-line options available? As for Playwright, they aren't undetected: See https://github.com/microsoft/playwright/issues/23884#issueco... - "Playwright is an end-to-end testing framework, where we expect you test on your own environments. Bypassing any form of bot protection is not something we can act on. Thanks for your understanding." On the contrary, SeleniumBase is OK with bypassing bot detection: https://github.com/seleniumbase/SeleniumBase/blob/master/exa...


Not the commenter, but “multiple branches” in this context is referring to if/else statements in the code, not source-control branches. Similarly, “flags” is referring to function arguments like a boolean “is_original.” More generally, they are just saying that the code has long, complicated, bug-prone functions.

That said, I just spent a few minutes browsing the SeleniumBase repro, and honestly it didn’t seem that unusual to me. Would be interested in seeing a specific example of what the commenter had in mind.


rather than point-by-point rebuttal as the sibling requests, I think this sums up the coding style pretty well: https://github.com/seleniumbase/SeleniumBase/blob/v4.33.11/s...


That's not amazing code but that's not that bad. In the grand scheme of things, that's not code debt that would ever seriously make my life any harder.


Yup. At least it's self-contained and easy to step through and modify if something breaks or needs to be changed.

And, a my previous PM would point out, even the copy-pasting and verifying no mistakes were made was a solution that took a fraction of the time a modern "clean" approach would. She had a point; as much as I'm against writing this simple code in the general case, plenty of devs tend to err towards overcomplicating solutions when given a chance.

I mean, the modern, proper, Clean Code™ solution would have this split into multiple files (not counting tests), and across two or three abstraction levels. I've seen this happen enough that I can tell I'd much prefer working with code like this capabilities parser (and hell, it can be beaten into near-perfection in an hour or three).


Amen!

I think the more experienced you get in coding the more you appreciate straight forward code you can immediately look at and understand.


That method came from code that I accepted in a PR from December 31, 2019: https://github.com/seleniumbase/SeleniumBase/pull/459 Not a true representation of most of the code today.


It's not really bad thought.

It's clear, it's intuitive, it's easy to understand on first glance, it's a single purpose function, it's easy to step through.

you don't have anything to defend here.


The code is in the code base. Presumably, it still gets run. It doesn't make a difference if new code doesn't look like that.


Bad old code has been battle tested. Bad new code has not, and is more likely to have the show stopper bugs you want to avoid.


There's actually a lot of examples being used for testing (https://github.com/seleniumbase/SeleniumBase/tree/master/exa...), which are run regularly (locally and in GitHub Actions). Plus, a lot of major companies are using SeleniumBase: https://github.com/seleniumbase/SeleniumBase/blob/master/hel... (if something breaks, I find out quickly)


Call it "legacy code" if you'd like. That specific part is from a less common feature for setting options when running on a Selenium Grid. The new CDP Mode isn't compatible with The Grid (since CDP Mode makes direct CDP API calls without making Selenium API calls).


it's always easier for people today to look at the work of other people in the past and draw stupid conclusions.. don't mind them..


Maybe I am just a cynic but I would expect Playwright to be detected when using Chrome, I mean I would expect it was to the benefit of Google to make that happen for the sake of making reCaptcha detect bots better.

That's actually why I've been scrapping my Playwright automation (because I expect I will encounter problems even if hasn't happened yet, cynical and paranoid) and moving towards writing a browser extension to automate Firefox.

Basically my use case is automating tedious things for myself not running bots at scale, so that's why it is imperative not to get caught being "not human", because then risk account problems.


How can Google make that happen? Playwright's made by Microsoft. It can use Firefox as a browser as well as Chrome.


well I said when using Chrome, how would they make it happen?

well it's not like it's using AutoHotkey to automate things, it must be using underlying browser apis to move to move the mouse to mouseover something etc. as opposed to actually using the mouse, as an example

naive workflow -

I would think the browser sends message to google that instance (unique id) is being automated, recaptcha is detected by chrome on page, chrome calls hidden recaptcha method .setUniqueId(uniqueID) uniqueID is sent back to Google response tells it this is actually an automated browser that is being used as opposed to recaptcha, recaptcha gives 90% chance browser is automated to site, site stops browser access.

Site happy it uses recaptcha because they stopped automation.

Sure, Playwright can use FF, but most often people just use Chrome.


Enterprise Python code. Somehow ends up being worse than Java enterprise code. I’m too used to it at this point.


The "Python vs Java" debate is probably one for a different Hacker News post. :)


I meant that some of the code reminds me of enterprise python. The kicker is that code that works > pretty code. People here act as if ugly code is somehow lesser just because it’s ugly. Meanwhile there’s a lot of ugly code making millions of dollars.

Didn’t mean to bash your project. Sorry if it came across that way.


It's OK. No offense was taken. It almost looked like the conversation was expanding into a "Python vs Java" debate, but (thankfully) it did not. I've seen both worlds. I've seen advantages to both. I decided to stay in the Python world.


Same. Although enterprise python is akin to wrestling a boa constrictor.


Not sure if you have explored rolling captcha solving services into your code. Its easy as fuck and you can do it in a few lines of code. Check out DeathByCaptcha or AntiCaptcha. It's like $2.99 per 1,000 successfully solved captchas.

I guess my point is, you dont have to be undetected nor write 1000 lines of code to scrape or do whatever you are needing to do always. Saved me a ton of headaches and time when captchas are involved.


SeleniumBase is free, open-source, can bypass CAPTCHAs with a few lines of code, and it works from the free tier of GitHub Actions.


It cant bypass all captchas and thats what im talking about.


According to live demos seen in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr90iQmNsKM, it'll bypass Cloudflare, Akamai, Shape Security, DataDome, Incapsula, Kasada, and PerimeterX.


Okay, and? DeathByCaptcha can bypass all of those + all other captchas.

Write a ton of code or just roll in a solving service API. Ez decision and save a ton of time + get to scraping faster.


I feel like what you're saying is you have a vested interest in the services you mentioned with all of this scope creep to your OG argument.


With SeleniumBase, you can bypass CAPTCHAs with one line of code: `sb.uc_gui_click_captcha()`


okay but it doesnt solve all captchas but a solving service does with a few more lines of code.

Can your script even do Google CAPTCHA and HCaptcha? What about the captcha from Dread? (aint no way it can)

There is no need to bypass them when you can just solve them.


There's a reCAPTCHA on the Pokemon website. This SeleniumBase example bypassed it: https://github.com/seleniumbase/SeleniumBase/blob/master/exa...


> There is no need to bypass them when you can just solve them.

There is no need to solve them when you can just bypass them.


the point is you cant bypass them all but you CAN solve them all.


Why pay to solve CAPTCHAs when SeleniumBase can bypass them for free? SeleniumBase can also "solve" CAPTCHAs (such as Cloudflare via click).


It's like you're not even reading what he wrote.


not if they have monopoly status


They did 2, second 1 being a repeat of the first one at Boeing's expense, cause the first one failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Orbital_Flight_Test_2


Where I live it is a) very sunny almost all year round and b) very common to have PVs on your roof. I currently have 5KWH installed on my roof, I have a Nissan Leaf which I charge every day whilst I am working for home and I've paid 70euros total for electricity in the last 2 months, whilst running the underfloor heating constantly.


well, they do record my slack messages for 2-3 months, and I am ok with that, even though that's my main method of communicating with my colleagues, and includes a number of personal conversations with them. Now, if my work required me to be able to verbally communicate with my colleagues, and the consequence of miscommunicating was the loss of 100s of lives and millions in property, then I would expect them to record every single thing I said, spoken or written, judiciously.


Have you tried smell training (basically you sniff 3-4 different types of essential oils daily). My girlfriend lost her smell due to covid for a year or so, and got it back about a month after starting smell training


I mean we smell with olfactory nerves. Are you saying they can be 'trained' so-to-speak? (Looked it up- sure enough [1])

I've never heard of such a thing but if so I'm glad there's something to at least try.

I don't personally know anyone who still hasn't regained their sense of smell, but for some it was a year or more before it returned fully.

I do know 2 people with 'long covid' who are just super low energy (not a severe case).

Im just excited it's all being looked into now as opposed to being blown off or labeled misinformation.

[1] https://www.uab.edu/reporter/patient-care/advances/item/1000...


Interesting. It is like "rehab" for smelling.


it's crazy that Wozniak would participate in such a service. Is he running out of money?


I think some just like making themselves available, but then you see a lot of the ones listed on Cameo that looks "cheap" at ~$100 or so are videos of an average length <2m. If you can make $100 whenever you're bored and have 2 minutes or can sit down and churn out 20 in less than an hour for $2k, you might be tempted even if you have decent amounts of money.


It's a very low effort way for him to make money, $500 to record a 1-5 minute long personal video, or even more for "business" videos, $10k/video + $2,5k-$12,5k for license depending on duration


That's very cynical. What's the point of "fuck you" money if you still have to be a talking money and sell your reputation?


It's ironic that you call it cynical, but assume they see it as being a talking monkey (I assume "money" was a typo) and selling their reputation. That seems overly cynical to me. Many people will happily do things where the financial payoff doesn't really move the needle for all kinds of reasons ranging from enjoying it or wanting to be available to fans and admirers, to just filling dead time or boring moments. I'd imagine part of the appeal is that these services have made it quick and easy to use it as a way to fill dead time doing something (talking to fans) they often end up doing for free anyway.


On His Cameo profile his rate is 10k for 10 minutes and says he is doing it for charity.


I think there is a big cultural and generational divide on if these types of associations are even reputation negative.


Wozniak had like 4 marriages and 3 children, in a state that loves bleeding breadwinners dry in family court ( in fact after 10 years spouse is considered used up and fully depreciated so could be lifelong payouts). This may be a scenario similar to the doctor who killed Michael Jackson, who despite massive income was drowning and did desperate things .


Couldn't he just have made another guest appearance on The Big Bang Theory?


As much as I adore him, his hands are already dirty from participating in various BitCoin scams before.

https://www.coindesk.com/tag/steve-wozniak/

Video: Apple Co-Founder Loses Bitcoin Scam Ads Lawsuit Against YouTube. Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple, recently lost his case against YouTube involving ads for a crypto scam that used his name and image without permission. Similar scam ads us... By CoinDesk Staff Jun 3, 2021

Markets: Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak Loses Case Against YouTube Involving Bitcoin Scam. A California superior court judge ruled the social media giant was not responsible for its users' content. By Sebastian Sinclair Jun 3, 2021

Finance: Apple Co-Founder Wozniak’s New Venture Lists Token to Help Fund Energy Efficiency Projects. Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak has launched Efforce, a company that facilitates investments in energy efficiency projects via cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. By David Pan Dec 5, 2020

Markets: Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak Sues YouTube Over Bitcoin Giveaway Scams. Wozniak is among 18 plaintiffs suing the video-sharing giant for allowing crypto giveaway scams using his likeness to flourish on the platform. By Sandali Handagama Jul 23, 2020

Markets: Steve Wozniak Has Joined an Energy-Focused Blockchain Startup in Malta. The Apple co-founder has joined his second blockchain enterprise, one targeting more efficient use of energy. By Daniel Palmer Jul 19, 2019

Markets: Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak Joins Crypto Startup Equi: Report. Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak said Tuesday that he's now working with investment-focused crypto startup Equi, though his role is as yet unclear. By Nikhilesh De Aug 21, 2018

Markets: Tech Legend Steve Wozniak Scammed Out of $70K in Bitcoin. Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak says he once lost seven bitcoin, worth more than $71,000 today, to a ruse involving a stolen credit card number. By Annaliese Milano Feb 27, 2018


They used his name and image without permission and illegally in a scam. That's the opposite of participating.


Keep reading. That was after directly participating in at least two crypto companies himself, Efforce and Equi. So he's been both victim and perpetrator.

The fact that he had already been willingly involved in and personally endorsed multiple Crypto schemes makes it even more plausible that people would believe other scams claiming to have his endorsement.

After getting scammed out of $70k and losing a lawsuit about having his likeness used without his permission, perhaps he should be more reluctant and picky about personally endorsing other crypto scams.

When you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.


We're the companies he was involved in scams or are you just assuming everything that involves crypto is a scam?


What crypto company isn't a scam?

>Apple Co-Founder Wozniak’s New Venture Lists Token to Help Fund Energy Efficiency Projects. Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak has launched Efforce, a company that facilitates investments in energy efficiency projects via cryptocurrency and blockchain technology.

Do you actually believe a crypto company that claims to be concerned about energy efficiency isn't a scam??!

>Apple Co-Founder Steve Wozniak Joins Crypto Startup Equi: Report. Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak said Tuesday that he's now working with investment-focused crypto startup Equi

Do you actually believe a crypto company that claims to be dispensing investment advice isn't a scam??!

If you believe that, have I got a sure bet for you:

https://twitter.com/molly0xFFF/status/1742218595935953286

>Molly White @molly0xFFF

>sorry to everyone who lost internet points on this

>Will Molly White (Web3 is Going Just Great) recant during 2023?

>jon jordan

>Will https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ have to make a significant retraction of its mission and praise blockchain during 2023?

Maybe jon jordan who made that bet just didn't realize that the title of Molly's blog was sarcastic.


Molly White isn't a reputable source


So you took that bet? How much did you lose?


No. Your comment doesn't make sense. Why would someone whose whole brand is talking shit about crypto switch it up? She has her audience and it works for her. She's clearly biased and not a good source for anything.


Does she make you sad that nobody believes or respects crypto shills any more?


Haha. No. Do you honestly think I think that?


If you honestly admit you believe and respect crypto shills, I'll honestly admit I believe you still do, but you're still an exception, thanks to Molly White and people like her and Dan Olson and Stephen Findeisen and Chris Natsuume, who seem to irritate you so much by simply educating people about the truth about crypto shills and scams and NFTs and Web3.

Dan Olson (Folding Ideas): Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g

>If someone pitches you on a "great" Web3 project, ask them if it requires buying or selling crypto to do what they say it does.

Stephen Findeisen (Coffeezilla): The END of Sam Bankman Fried

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzko-cjHhTg

>The worst scammer faces justice and I went to go watch. Full breakdown and deep dive into the trial of Sam Bankman Fried.

Chris Natsuume (Ninesquirrels): Let me explain Blockchain gaming and Play-to-Earn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKzup7XDyq8

>NFTs are a pure scam. Blockchain gaming is a pyramid scheme. Play-to-Earn is not only a scam, it's deeply immoral.

Chris Natsuume (Ninesquirrels): Using NFTs to own ingame objects: Also pretty much a scam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IYjsWBbmKI

>In this video, I'd like to clarify and further explain: Using NFTs to own ingame objects is an unnecessarily inefficient byproduct of a larger scam.


I have centralized AC and the wall-mounted control panel is located in a small storage room. I wanted to hack the control panel with an Arduino and a Raspberry pi so I can control it remotely via my Alexa. I ended up buying a switch bot [0] and an IP camera and was done with it.

0: https://www.switch-bot.com/products/switchbot-bot


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