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I wish it was even that high-minded, but though the people who planned the invasion of Iraq exploited these attitudes, they were not themselves motivated by them.

Powerful groups wanted the US to attack Iraq before 9/11 made US voters easy to convince.




Read "The Gathering Storm" for an argument to topple Saddam made before we went in (but post 9-11) There is a long list of reasons which I won't go into here. 9-11 was the tipping point in terms of domestic politics, no doubt. It also seems to be the tipping point in terms of strategic policy.

There's an interesting discussion about why democratic nations go to war. If there is a mixed number of reasons and a volunteer army, which are the actual reasons we fight? I just read read a blog entry by an Army 1st Lt. killed last year who made the argument that he was joining up to stop oppression. To do something and make a difference. I also hear a lot of folks talk about leaders with supposedly bad intentions who "got us into this." So when a president and congress vote on something, and people volunteer to do it, is it possible to assign any one reason to why it's being done?

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs. Probably get downmodded again for this comment. Have at it, then.


You should not get downmodded for difference of opinion, but frankly, I think thinking in these simplistic terms (good vs. evil, us right, them wrong) has led us into military adventurism and disasters, including the current one. This is not 1938, Saddam was not Hitler, and dissenters were not Chamberlains. They were thinkers.

How people who were alive and had a front row seat to Vietnam let this happen escapes me. It was very clear from the mixed reasons given, along with the silencing of dissent and rush to attack that there were ulterior reasons for invasion.

Coupled with the quotes from senior admin officials "cakewalk", "oil will pay for it", "done in a few weeks", and the end of this fiasco was as clear and predictable as day to me.

But I digress. And feel free to disagree.


Dissenters were not Neville Chamberlains. They were thinkers. I agree. I spent many hours pouring over various arguments on Iraq before we went in, and I was deeply emotional about the way things turned out. But I also digress.

But the other side were also thinkers. Thinkers can disagree. The wonderful thing about both startups and politics is that if you are wrong, somebody else will come along and be right. The parallel extends in that sometimes we work on incomplete information. Additionally, traction on the ground is all that matters, hence the reason why we should all know a little more about COIN (COunter INsurgency) today than one year ago.

I was too young to remember the politics around Vietnam. I had an uncle who volunteered in the Marines, only to be sent to California instead. He was very disappointed. I know that hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese left the communist invasion to go wherever they could. I feel certain that South Vietnam could have held against the North had we not cut off all of their support in Congress. But I am not a military expert, so what do I know?

Communism is not bad, as in moral terms. It is bad in terms of effectiveness and efficiency. More people are happy under capitalism. That doesn't make Capitalism right, it just makes it more "right" than other systems. "right" is a term that needs further definition before you can comment on it.

As a side note, I would have not supported the invasion of Iraq had I not felt that we as a country were in it for no matter what it took. Fighting a war is a horrible thing, and if it is necessary, it doesn't become "not necessary" once the bill gets too high, the deaths get too high, or the newspapers start trashing your political party (not that I am a Republican.) Wars are not football games. Nobody wins in a war. But yet the applied use of physical violence seems to be a constant in the reality I live in. It also seems obvious that it is a duty on each of us to determine the rules by which such violence should be fostered on others. It is not sufficient to make blanket statements -- each of us owes our society a reason when and why we would or would not use violence. I think this responsibility for analysis is missing. Perhaps because most people feel more like spectators than participants.

We use terms like "bad" "good" "right" "wrong" to signify some serious and nuanced opinions. It makes sense to take the time to explain ourselves. Thanks for calling me on it. Apologies if I continue to offend folks and get down-modded again.


It also seems obvious that it is a duty on each of us to determine the rules by which such violence should be fostered on others. It is not sufficient to make blanket statements -- each of us owes our society a reason when and why we would or would not use violence. I think this responsibility for analysis is missing. Perhaps because most people feel more like spectators than participants.

If only our elected leadership thought like this. At least you went through the process and were willing to accept the consequences.

We were led into this as if it were a football game, and the public bought it. I remember arguing with people about the cost in lives, and they were pissed at people like Susan Sarandon because "they don't have to pay high gas prices. What are those stars worried for?". The whole "shut up and sing" anti-analytical thought process in the run-up showed me how amenable the public is to control with fear. I counted at least 4 changes in the rationale for war within a week by Bush during this time period, and it didn't seem to matter to anyone but me.

I figured, "maybe I'm too skeptical and they know something I don't". If only that were the case. Due to the football game cakewalk mentality of our leadership, we have had 5 years of hillbilly armor, extended tours of duty, an insurgency, thousands dead, etc. It didn't have to be this way.

Again, thanks for your opinion and glad someone else is thinking.




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