Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I did read the article. The article and the legal thinking are badly confused and, really, nonsense.

Why? The main reason why and my point in my post is that blocking the IP address is just silly talk since an IP address can't be used at all reliably to identify a computer or user. The IP address is nearly irrelevant.

The Web site might as well find that the person, say, Tom, they didn't like ate at McDonald's and then try to block everyone who eats at McDonald's. Then Tom can eat at Wendy's, and everyone who does continue to eat at McDonald's gets blocked and maybe accused of violating the C&D letter. Again, once again, over again, yet again, IP address just says next to nothing about who did or did not connect to the Web site. So, IP address should be ignored in this legal discussion.

Away from McDonald's and more specifically about the Internet, (1) The user who got the C&D letter could just use a different IP address. One way to do that is to us a proxy as in the article. Another way is just to disconnect the electrical power from a cable modem and connect power again. Then the modem will likely forget the IP address it was last assigned, use the internet standard dynamic host connection protocol (DHCP) to get another IP address from the Internet service provider (ISP), and continue on. Another way is, the ISP can just assign a different IP address at any time for any reason. So, the person, Tom, who received the C&D letter can get a new IP address and, indeed, be forced to give up his old IP address. And the user, Tom, need not even be aware of this change in IP address.

(2) The Web site could get torqued at the wrong person. So, the ISP of the person receiving the C&D letter, Tom, could assign the the IP address blocked by the Web site to another person, Joe, not involved in any of the legal efforts, and Tom could try to connect to the Web site. Then the Web site could blame Tom for access to their site by Joe. Bummer for Joe.

For your

> just see if 3taps has data from the craigslist website that was after the effective date of the IP block

that's not nearly "easy enough". Even to start to look for this data, need full access to at least the computer of the person who got the C&D letter, Tom.

So, have to grab Tom's computer. By what right? Tom can claim that he has been honoring the C&D letter and not been accessing the Web site and that the blocked IP address has been assigned to someone else, Joe.

Even if get Tom's computer, now what? He could have several trillion bytes of data on his computer, and also have other computers in his house/office. Looking for the Craigslist data could be a lot of work and very intrusive, whether Tom had the data or not. The search could uncover business plans, love letters, etc. Tom should be able to keep private.

The Craigslist data could be anywhere in that data or nowhere. The data could be encrypted. Tom might have copied the data to DVD and hidden it in the bottom of his kitty cat's litter box, under insulation in his attic, in one of several hundred books on his bookshelf, etc. Pawing through all of Tom's private possessions all based in IP address or less is outrageously intrusive and wildly unfair to Tom.

Next, it need not be the least bit clear in what form the data is. The data, as sent by Craigslist, is essentially just simple text plus maybe some pictures in JPG, GIF, PNG, etc. A lot of that text data is HTTP, HTML, and CSS tokens, symbols, and markup that has next to nothing to do with the Craigslist data at issue; those tokens, etc. can easily be removed by a simple program or text editor leaving just the data. That data can be pulled into a spreadsheet, written to a database (e.g., SQL Server or MySql), combined with other data in files, tables, etc., graphed, formatted with TeX, PostScript, PDF, etc., and look nothing much like a Web page from Craigslist. So, turning Tom's house upside down promises to uncover nothing relevant to the C&D letter.

Since maybe Tom is honoring the C&D letter, turning his house upside down is not justified by any evidence and is unfair to Tom.

Moreover, maybe Tom got the Craigslist data from, say, a Google archived copy or a friend or another Web site.

"Easy enough" is a very long way from being true: It's easy for Tom to have what looks like Craigslist data when he did honor the C&D letter. It's easy for Tom not to have honored the C&D letter and have some Craigslist data but be next to impossible to know this, no matter what devastation is inflicted on Tom's house or office.

More generally, the Web site is volunteering to send its data over the Internet to computers and software that request the data via a HTTP GET request. About all the Web site knows is that there was a GET request from an IP address; neither the GET request nor the IP address say anything meaningful about a person. It's not the least bit clear who the person is. That's just how the Internet works. If the Web site doesn't like that, then they can shut down.

So, really, the Web site can send all the letters they want, but they have no evidence that should justify searching what data Tom has or if Tom did or did not honor the C&D letter.

The Web site effectively put the data out there in the public square for everyone, anonymously, to see, copy, keep, and in some, and maybe all, respects use. Then later the Web site changed their mind and wants some absurd restrictions based on some nearly meaningless evidence. The data is offered to anonymous users, and it is not clear just who the users are, and no amount of C&D letter writing and IP address tracking, etc. can change that.



Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: