There's more theoretical knowledge behind nursing and engineering compared to carpentry and plumbing, but, really, the idea of on-the-job training with someone who knows what they're doing watching is something we know works because it has worked for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

So some degree programs will entail an apprenticeship. That's going to be a lot more difficult to game than a multiple-choice exam would be.

In fact, I've witnessed this, as has pretty much anybody here who has ever given an interview to a college grad with a very pretty GPA who flames out of the interview barely able to tie their shoes in code. Either they literally cheated their way through college, or more likely, just overfocused on the credential part of the process, but they don't make it into a position to do damage. (And if they did, well, whatever system accepted them probably isn't long for this world anyhow or has long since adapted to letting those people in and still somehow keeps them away from Big Red Buttons.)

An apprentice might make a wind tunnel model designed by an engineer but they would probably know zero about CFD.

I do wish people who have never worked in proper engineering would stop throwing craft and apprentice in to discussions when they have no understanding of what they are taking about.

- study for your CS degree (formerly 'Diplom', now Bachelor/Master) at a university for a couple years

- do a 2.5/3 year thing including school and working in a company (actually having a company to take you on is required for these kinds of degrees most of the time). It's - an apprenticeship (using the same process, word and methodology as you'd use in a crafting skill)

Do you get the very same job offers, the same salary? Probably not. But I'd say that you have the chance to work on the same stuff as any bachelor/master of CS. I think the disadvantage is merely in the first couple of years and often (note: Not always. Sometimes the more theoretical CS background counts a lot, of course) unfairly so.

So - yeah. You can do an apprenticeship here. Starting with 16 (you'd be done with 19) or 18-19 (you'd probably be allowed to shorten the time to 2 years -> 20, 21).

Disclaimer: I have neither a ~normal~ degree from a university nor did I do this apprenticeship. But - it works.

And I seem to recall the German education system has some quite strict streaming. I think going from apprentice-> ->technician->engineer (or similar level of job) might be harder in Germany than it is in the UK or US.

Having said that Germany has a very powerfull vocational training system unlike any where else in the world.

So, two things.

1) You claimed that an apprenticeship is only for crafts and I told you that this isn't the case here. Locally your 'strictly craft skills' comment would be wrong. Very much so.

2) Yeah, a degree matters in some/most places, like everywhere else in the world I guess. That's not related to apprenticeships in particular though (having done stuff like that is better than having nothing of value in writing at all, like .. me). And too general to be 'truthy'.

Back to the topic: Apprentices (and former apprentices) are not unable to do the job of an engineer.

And how many senior engineers at Audi and BMW and Mercedes started as apprentices.

In the English speaking word this is not the case we are look upon as greasy almost sub human.

for example the wife of the no2 at bt labs you know the place where the first computer was designed and built when she said that he husband was an engineer she was asked patronizingly "oh thats nice dear what sort of cars does he work on"