"About China, includes even a history lesson for you: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=14...

Read your source again. Maybe go beyond the title this time. Here is a nice excerpt: "The lifetime prevalence rates of illicit drug use among residents age 15 years or older in high-prevalence Chinese cities increased from 1.1% in 1993 to 1.6% in 1996, and the 1-year prevalence rate increased from 0.9% to 1.2% during this period [10,11]."

Now go read that again and notice that in high-prevalence regions, use is ~1-2%. Wonder what it is in the low-prevalence regions... If the US had that kind of usage statistics, every anti-drug activist in the US and I would be very happy. Even happier if use went lower.

"Last time I checked there was no data from Singapore because their government is not particularly interested in allowing independent studies to be made. There is data about their execution rate (death penalty), though. Amnesty international considers it to be amongst the highest worldwide."

First point: Singapore gives the death penalty for quite a few crimes. By itself, it is not a useful statistic. Furthermore, AI is far from a "neutral observer" on these issues. Lastly, what exactly is the problem with a high execution rate? The lack of crime?

Second point: from the CIA Factbook on Singapore: "drug abuse limited because of aggressive law enforcement efforts"

newt0311, you can read all the reports you like. Here's what I can tell you about my experiences in Shanghai over 9 years:

Illegal drug use is on the rise and very accessible. Drugs that are _very_ easy to get: marijuana/hashish, cocaine, ecstasy. Drugs you can get if you ask around: opiates/heroine, crystal meth, ketamine.

That list is just what I have seen with my own eyes. And I'm not into the "party scene". I'm a family man that needs to go to work in the mornings. But I have seen all of it and it is very accessible.

China is working hard to fight opiate/heroine use. My info is that they are currently losing the fight as the growth is happening at the bottom of the economic pyramid. China has a clear history of what opiates can do to their country. The other stuff takes a back seat as they fight other problems, like clean water.

As for Singapore. There are lots of things that Singapore does that do not scale well to other societies. Its a city-state, an island!. You may agree with Singapore's tactics and like their results, but that does not mean these tactics can be grafted onto the U.S.

China doesn't really have a reputation for reporting real numbers (remember sars or what percentage is affected by the hiv according to them). When calculating drug use, it's always a guesstimate anyway so don't you think they just give artificially low numbers?

Like jhancock, I've had quite a few people proposing me to get drugs from the xiamen restaurant owner who proposed me to buy marijuana to my ex-girlfriend there that asked me if I want to try some meth when I asked about the people who clearly seemed high in night clubs...

As for singapore, I don't know but malaysia that has the same policies about drugs doesn't really seem to be so successful at not having drugs either.

First Point: My problem with the death penalty - as a libertarian - is that I can't imagine anything more wrong for my government to do to me than to unjustly take my life away. And if you think wrongful execution doesn't happen, you're kidding yourself. It's just a matter-of-fact combination of no system being perfect, and the law of large numbers.

Second Point: That sounds like an opinion about cause and effect, rather than a fact. Which is okay, since the CIA always gets it right, like those WMDs they found right after we conquered Iraq!