I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much; If I’m going out for coffee I prefer places where I know the baristas so I get to feel like a part of my community.
There are a couple stores around me run by small families, and honestly sometimes I feel like I'm halfway to being part of their family when I visit. They recognize me, greet me by name, and start firing up my order right away. Or they ask me how I'm doing and I do the same, but it goes deeper than "good, you?" - I'm learning currently about how one dude is trying a year living together with his ex again. I'm praying for 'em every day pretty much. We share recipes, stores, etc.
We will rue every decision we make to remove humans from interactions imo.
I've started regularly visiting a couple coffee shops in Tokyo whenever I go there and I'm on first name basis with the owners/managers, whereas if I go to the same shops in the SF Bay Area more regularly it's rare that anyone recognizes me.
I definitely prefer that neighborhood coffee shop feel and at least shops I go to near home don't have that. Even the smaller ones with similar amounts of business and number of employees as the ones in Tokyo.
Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too. It’s not a particularly skilled job for a human to do, besides the customer service aspect of course, perhaps I am ignorant in that regard.
Indeed, coming from Spain, I don’t really see the lady as a barista, she is the classic bartender that listens to you and knows everybody. Except the bar is open throughout the day, is family friendly, sells all kinds besides alcohol (breakfast, coffee, tobacco, lunch, dinner, newspapers, lottery tickets, snacks and sweets…), and generally acts as the social nexus of the neighborhood. These old school small bars are everywhere in southern EU. Within that context it is less surprising that she would stay working there as long as she physically could.
I am also Spanish, living in Japan, and our bars is one the things I miss the most. Seriously, you don't realize how amazing Spanish bars are until you don't have them.
Here I just stop by a konbini, grab a can coffee and a plastic-wrapped sandwich, and off I go. There is no social nexus, and no neighbourhood for that matter. It's depressing.
When I was teaching in Ube, Japan in 1979, there was a great jazz music coffee bar. The entire wall behind the counter was covered with jazz LP's. They had huge speakers, a massive turntable, and a McIntosh amp. You would go in, pick an album and order coffee. The counter was lined with vacuum coffee makers. The barista would grind your choice of bean and fire up the coffee alembic. The boiling water would erupt into the upper chamber, brew a while, then magically get sucked down into the bottom carafe when he took it off the flame. You could drink at the counter or go to a table. I didn't look like a beatnik, but I felt like one! Cool, daddio.
Izakaya usually only open for dinner, maybe lunch, but definitely not breakfast. Many of them also offer private rooms, which is the complete opposite of the social aspect of Spanish bars...
> Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too.
I have yet to see a high-quality one.
I've been at two offices that have automated espresso machines. They'll make something that's labeled as a "Latte", but it's just coffee with powdered milk.
You are right that most are not very good, but it's more because of business reasons than technical ones. It's more costly and bulky to keep remote coffee machines supplied with fresh milk or cream, as well as other extras, and keep it all well refrigerated. Most people do not seem to be ready to pay extra for it.
But a robot barista in a coffee shop would end up being exactly like normal coffee machines that have been around forever, perhaps just a bit higher-end than an office one. It's not really an idea like OP was implying.
I've had a coffee from a high end bean to cup machines, installed in a conference room at our vebdor's headquarters, which used fresh milk and made a better cappuccino than I've had from real humans at many chain coffee shops. They might be rare, but they're out there.
I feel like there are definitely two types of people that are after coffee - the morning commute people that need caffeine, and just want it fast. They'd not notice a machine doing it for them (and a lot of them would have a machine at home!)
The other group is like you and I, where we like engaging with the community.
I suppose three - the Starbucks crew that do it for 'likes'.
The Italian morning caffè ritual is already extremely fast: the barista works at the speed of light and the coffee you get is pretty standard, but in exchange you get a moment to rub shoulders "al banco" with others like you about to go into work, or elders just getting out of the house, a mother taking her kid to school, a policeman taking a break. You say hi to the same few people you've been seeing at the establishment for years. It's familiar and heartwarming.
It's a sprinkling of human connection as you start your day. A small homage to the tradition of coffee culture. Your grandparents did it, your parents did it, you did it, your kids will do it, etc. You rejoice in knowing that, as everything else changes around you, maybe this one minuscule secular ritual will stand the test of time and provide a symbolic sense of continuity with the past.
The wonderful feeling of walking into YOUR café, giving that special look to the barista, a smile, and he darts off at 100 km/h to make YOUR coffee (long, short, espresso, mochaccino) while he was already making a thousand others. In 3 seconds he already has YOUR favorite croissant in his hand, the water. “The usual?” You nod, smiling. A greeting glance to the regulars “of your hour.” Breakfast, you pay, you smile.
If you have two minutes, you skim the newspaper while eating your croissant, because that’s just what you do, even if you already skimmed the news in a rush on the toilet on your phone.
It’s a happy and friendly way to start the active part of the day.
To feel like you’re part of your community.
I love it — no vending machine or Starbucks can ever match it.
Despite worries about creeping prices, coffee in Italy averages around €1.20 for an espresso or €1.50 for a cappuccino [1]. Way different than in a major American city.
I think group 3 is a bit of a reach. Most people just treat it as a commodity. You need a break after shopping? Coffee. Meeting someone to talk over something for 30 minutes? Coffee. Need a cozy place to sit and get some work done? Coffee. For none of these do people have to engage with the community or be caffeine addicts.
I have a feeling that most people imagine this. But this doesn’t sound like on the ground reality for me? Here in Tokyo, most people I’ve seen just grab brewed coffee or the usual espresso drinks and go on with their lives. When I lives in Toronto/Vancouver, that’s what I experienced over there as well. Used to frequent one down the street as it was the cheapest brewed available coffee, and the regulars would always order their normal cups to go.
It’s interesting to see these type of generalizations that I never experience in life. I’m not saying there’s no truth to it, as girls in my circles often talk about “oh, it’s PSL season, I wanna go!”. But it’s hard to believe that all of their customers go for the special drinks.
I've never seen this either. I'm just interpreting what I think OP meant.
I used to live in Seoul, and new special food or drink items definitely would cause fad waves and would appear on Instagram feeds (Seoul is notorious for this), but I doubt it was the major parts of Starbucks' business.
The sweet latte-based drinks are a huge part of Starbuck’s business. They make far more money on these things (and frappucinos and iced lattes, etc.) than coffee or espresso. But it’s mostly just selling them to people who like the taste (and don’t really care for plain coffee at all). The people posing for instagram are a small minority.
Yeah most chains these days have specialty items that are 3 times the price of their staple items where they make a lot of money and draw in new and old customers. I think Starbucks was just one of the first to do it so regularly.
Robotic baristas - I'm assuming the OP is referring to those 6dof robot arm deployments - are largely novelty or luxury items meant to catch attention. You either see them in touristy areas trying to attract the Instagram crowd, or (increasingly now, after the novelty is starting to wear of) in corporate lobbies trying to impress.
> I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much...
How do they save costs?
Their operating cost doesn't beat gas station coffee, and the margins needed to service them end up pricing them the same as human barista coffee.
Automation only works if it helps reduce your COGS, not increase it, and for a product like coffee with already paper thin margins, the cost of servicing a robotic barista ends up not being much different from hiring 2-3 part time baristas while providing a subpar product.
I used to feel the same way, but, then I find it weird that the barista has to be there. I get the sense that some people use them almost like a free therapist since they have a captive audience.
It's an interesting sidebar discussion what are cultural norms on social interaction vs using someone like a free therapist. I guess consent to whatever topic, equal airtime, not saying inappropriate things, not slowing down their work.
Those already exist though, coffee machines have been around for decades. Granted, most of them won't make you a neat milk leaf or tree or whatever, but how important is that to you?
