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“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

History, just like everything else in Nature, is cyclical.



I hate this quote as it is usually recited by those “weak men”.


I agree with the sentiment, I’d probably phrase it slightly more politely as “people who use this always seem to believe they are the ‘strong men’ and other are the weak”


And those that hate the quote are the “strong men”? Given the many complaints about it, instead of trying to read between the lines about history being proved time and time again to be cyclical, I wouldn’t be so sure.

The responses, ranging from political partisanship, ad hominem, to being offended by the choice of words, are certainly a sign of the times.


People who forget the hard lessons their ancestors learned are doomed to repeat their mistakes.


Exactly! Its lucky we learned the lesson of WWII and invaded all those horrid dictators. Wait....


Notably, this quote makes actual historians cringe. But hey, if it sounds cool it must be the Truth!


It's a protofascist phrase, part of the problems we have is people adopting this worldview, that life has to be hard in order to create "good men". It's used to defend rightwing social darwinism.

If anything, history goes the other way around. Fascism ("strong men") comes from good times, as a reaction. They create authoritarianism and discrimination ("bad times"), which slowly liberalizes and equalizes (gives rise to "weak men"). This makes situation better until another fascist takeover.



The phrase is commonly used amongst conservatives, yes. Labelling it “proto fascist” is ridiculous.


How exactly did you get to the conclusion that fascism needs "strong men"? The current US regime has nothing but the weakest, most fearful men clutching to power. You really think that Trump's call to execute senator Kelly comes from a position of strength? Your current bad times came from a few decades of weak men letting their fear and hatred (and greed) guide their vote -- strong men had very little to do with it.

Anyway, the quoted saying is not about any specific ideology, that's just your own projection. Here's the cycle reformulated without any specific ideology:

Hard times create strong men: hardship breeds discipline

Strong men create good times: discipline breeds prosperity

Good times create weak men: prosperity breeds complacency

weak men create hard times: complacency leads to hardship


"How exactly did you get to the conclusion that fascism needs "strong men"?"

Fascists (and protofascist advocates of social darwinism) do think that! Whether they actually are or not "strong men" (what does it even mean?) is immaterial to that saying.

I disagree with the saying. Even your formulation. Hardship doesn't breed discipline, and prosperity doesn't lead to complacency. There are many disciplined people who have good and prosperous life, and also, why is being disciplined more important than good life? It's authoritarian and backwards.

For example, being homeless (hardship) doesn't make one disciplined. Most likely, it will make one into an alcoholic.

Hardship is horrible and we should universally reject it.


If there's one thing everyone can agree on, it's that Hitler really brought the good times for the people of Germany.


That's deep bro! I think this was coined by Joe Rogan, right?


Cyclical, like my eyes rolling in my sockets every time I read this quote.


That is an extremely shallow phrase, usually quoted by people who have nothing to add except an appeal to "the good old times" when "men were men".

So is the idea that "history is cyclical". It's literally the bell curve meme, and you're in the middle x)


If this obnoxious and seemingly ubiquitous platitude were actually true, then torture would be a moral duty. Enforced poverty would be a moral duty. Governments would be obligated to regularly arrange mass starvations for their citizens.

I don't believe it. Personally, I think spiritual weakness and religious corruption are more likely culprits -- and not necessarily the type of spirituality or religion that you might be thinking of.

Either way, "good times" is a dangerous place to put the blame. It relieves us of responsibility for our own catastrophes (it was the good times' fault), and it makes us suspicious of prosperity and happiness.

Good times are not evil. We don't need to shun them, provided we keep strengthening the better angels of our nature.




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