This is directly related to the control issue. Compliance means control is easy. But this will not prevent them from blame dumping and un-ethical acts.
You do realize that all of these are false dichotomies.
Leaders share the right amount of context so their people understand the overarching strategy and goals. They don't overshare.
Leaders help move their people away from rule-breaking in the first place.
Leaders prioritize the health of the team. While this should include giving timely correction and assistance to help people to the right track, and finding ways to lean in to individual strengths, it also absolutely includes removing people with poisonous attitudes, disruptive behavior, or someone dragging the team down with poor performance.
Leaders reward justified, rational dissent. Compliance is an expected norm until someone can demonstrate either an exception or the need for a new norm. Compliance is more often related to things that can sink the entire company, so no, it doesn't just mean "control." Compliance is not the same as conformity.
I mean, obviously if you're presenting it in the format that the article does, it comes across as a false dichotomy. I read it as one part exaggeration to make the point that what too many managers do is actively detrimental to team health, and one part emphasizing the direction in which to err to be a good leader.
Obviously (just to pick one of the dichotomies there) blindly rewarding dissent is not really any better than blindly suppressing it. All of these need to be done with nuance and judgement. Because those are absolutely vital skills of any good leader.
The point is that managers (of a certain type) are approaching these particular issues in exactly the wrong way, and need to be shown that.
It sounds like we both agree that she was pursuing a similar strategy then. Steve Jobs hoarding information and being successful doesn't mean hoarding information is a good idea or that he wouldn't have been even more successful if he had overcome some of his worst impulses.
It’s kind of a dumb premise. Anyone can get the leadership or the management treatment as described here - if just depends if the leader/manager likes what you’re doing.
I have stuck my neck out of underperforming employees and was quickly disincentivized.
No, but these are slogans that seldom survive contact with reality.
"Managers Hoard Information. Leaders Overshare." - sure, until they don't. Because as companies grow, the probability that there is a hostile or careless employee in the audience approaches 1. That employee may tell a friend working at a competitor, may talk to a journalist, and so on. Most tech companies are funded on the principle of radical transparency, but then start compartmentalizing information because oversharing doesn't scale.
"Managers Weaponize Policy. Leaders Bend Rules for People." - likewise, this works up to a point. Past that point, if every "leader" within the company is bending the rules, you end up in an unmanageable mess, and outcomes that are unfair and legally perilous ("how come the company made an exception for Jill but not Joe?").
"Managers Fire Fast. Leaders Coach, Then Help People Land Softly." / "Managers Avoid Hard Conversations. Leaders Run Toward Them." - wait, so which one is it? Firing someone is a hard conversation, and in my experience, line managers often avoid it, letting performance problems fester for too long. Then, it's the "leaders" (the top brass - founders, etc) who decide that things have gone too far and we need to make brutal 10% cuts across the board.
"Managers Reward Compliance. Leaders Reward Dissent." - this varies, but the tolerance for dissent is usually higher among line managers than top leadership, simply because dissent is guaranteed once you hit a certain scale and your company can't be run as a perpetual discussion club. At some point, you need to get behind the plan or look for another job. I'd wager that Steve Jobs wasn't all that keen on dissent from random employees. Similarly, if you work at Palantir and tell them that they should sever ties with the Dept Homeland Security, I'm sure they will be happy to show you the door.
> Then, it's the "leaders" (the top brass - founders, etc) who decide that things have gone too far and we need to make brutal 10% cuts across the board.
I agree with the general sentiment of your points, but aren't those 10-20-30% layoffs an attempt to make the bottom line look better before the call with the investors? In my experience most layoffs have a goal to reduce spend by X rather than churn underperformers. And often times managers aren't even allowed to target based on merit, but on some weird metric which is a mixture of compensation and impact.
Well, if you define leaders as people who do the things outlined in the article, then sure, it tautologically describes the traits of leaders. But then, it means that Steve Jobs wasn't a leader, Bill Gates wasn't a leader, Jeff Bezos isn't a leader - basically, none of the most successful business-builders qualify. Apparently, they were all just managers.
So then, who is the article about? And more to the point, if it's not a recipe for success, why should I follow its advice?
You have to learn to manage up as much as down. In other words convince your boss that what you're doing is the right thing to do. Might not work in all situations of course but if they respect you and you had time to show your value, they might surprise you by going your way.
To clarify my comment: the challenge is how to make room to follow this advice as a manager, when your own manager doesn’t share these values. In particular, when visibly bending rules, or spending any time coaching “nonperforming” subordinates, or “showing weakness” by tolerating dissent, is going to look like “bad management” to your manager.
After all, if most managers valued the things in this post, we wouldn’t need the post.
Detach from reacting to them, invert the situation and give them what they’re looking for but not asking for.
Generalizing heavily, but I have turned relationships around to somewhat functional levels like this with weak leaders who leaned entirely into playing their supposed manager role.
Example: micromanager. Nagging you for updates. Inverted: insecure and craving information. I’ll flood you with information. Maybe you’ll back off and trust me if you’re not pathologically like this.
Information hoarding. Inverted: politically vulnerable, unsure of who to trust (maybe? If not a psychopath). Share information - not gossip - give them the credit, make them feel like they have allies and backup. See if you can’t go through something together and build trust.
Avoiding hard convos (coward). Inversion: insecure about people skills, probably bad history of making things worse. Start the hard convos for them by setting them up and handing them off. Take the risk and make the icebreaker moves, scheduling or calling or introducing. Play a support role if it’s them vs externals, detach and be supportive and nonreactive or limit it to positive reinforcement only and active listening if 1 on 1.
Typically I see immediate improvement with these if behavior stems from insecurity, but psychopaths and narcissists can and will take advantage.
I think nonreactivity and some pity for the cowardly go a long way to stabilizing things if they’re trying but failing. Cut them off and leave if it’s hopeless.
It's very easy for Simon Sinek to write and speak about leadership when he has never actually done it. Divorced from the messiness of reality, you can write a lot of nice-sounding platitudes.
Exactly right. Each of these is just obviously wrong.
Leaders Overshare? Simon shares material non-public information on linkedin. Now he and the company are in trouble.
Leaders bend the rules? Simon bent the rules for some of his team but not others, now multiple past employees are bringing discrimination lawsuits.
Leaders coach and help people land softly? Simon kept too many low performers on his team and now the company's product is buggy, behind competitors and forced to downsize so his entire team is being cut.
> Leaders Overshare? Simon shares material non-public information on linkedin. Now he and the company are in trouble.
I think this is within the team. Maybe you never worked for someone who doesn't share, who keep secrets, within the team. I did. It is frustrating. It makes you doubt every word they say, even a simple "everything is going fine" sows doubt in you, making you wonder if they are hidding bad news. It makes you doubt what you are doing is useful, because some time ago they hide a change of focus for weeks.
Then the secrets are revealed, they are stupid and pointless (not industrial secrets like you imply), they kept it secret just in case.
A nugget of advice distilled from Bill Hader: when people tell you what you're doing isn't working, they're right. When they tell you what you should do instead, they're wrong.
If someone is giving life-coach type advice, an ad hominem actually might be relevant, right? The blog post doesn’t really make any arguments, it is just advice based on his observations. Which is fine, but it hinges on his expertise.
An ad hominem isn't always a fallacy. If you put yourself out as someone with credibility or expertise in a field and use that to back up your ideas, you have put your credibility on the table to attack.
No True Scotsman really only applies to factual statements. All normative statements suffer from a No True Scotsman fallacy. But it doesn't really matter because they aren't literally true to begin with, they're lodestars or food for thought.
Eg, if I say, "real programmers never ship untested code," well, I've shipped untested code either on accident or to address a production incident. I'm just some dude, but I'm sure many of the very best programmers would say the same. But I think there would be a consensus among them that you ought not to if possible.
Problem is, there's lots of true Scotsman and many are quite famous.
Here's a far from complete list of famous people. Are these managers? No? Who is famous and a manager? Are these leaders? Yes. Are these role models? Also yes
- Stanislav Petrov: a true Scotsman who prevented WW3
- Irena Sendler: a true Scotsman who created illegal documents to help Jewish children escape the Gestapo
- Rosa Parks: a true Scotsman who stood up for what's right and catalyzed the civil rights movement in America
- Martin Luther King Jr: a true Scotsman who led the civil rights movement and is so well known you'll find a street named after him in every major city in America and a ton of minor ones too.
- Jeffrey Wigand: a true Scotsman who blew the whistle on tobacco companies
- Edward Snowden: a true Scotsman who blew the whistle the on illegal actions of the NSA
- Daniel Ellsberg: a true Scotsman who blew the whistle on the Pentagon Papers
- Ignaz Semmelweis: a true Scotsman who brought us hand washing for doctors and saved hundreds of millions of lives
- John Snow: a true Scotsman who saved thousands from cholera and helped us learn how germs spread
- Katalin Karikó: a true Scotsman who pursued her beliefs, leading to the development of mRNA vaccines despite this pursuit leading to the loss of funding as well as being denied tenure.
I can go on and on and on. There's thousands of these individuals who are famous for their defiance. They've saved billions of lives. They've pushed us into new social paradigms bringing us justice and equality. They've forged new scientific paradigms leading to better medicines, technologies, and prosperity.
Then there's millions more who are not famous or are less known. Just because their actions didn't change the world outright doesn't mean they didn't save many. It doesn't mean they didn't have tremendous impact on their communities.
If you look at the history of man, one thing is certain: the world changed by those who were not deterred by their obstacles. The world changed because of the action of thousands or millions of these Scotsman.
The anniversary of Petrov's heroism is coming up. 9pm UTC on the 26th ("shortly after midnight" in Moscow). I'm going to pour out a shot of vodka in his honor.
It sounds like you're making mountains out of molehills. The author is clearly trying to be inspirational. Is it idealistic? Yes. But are these qualities you can emulate and strive to follow?
So why are you trying to find excuses to dismiss them? Are you afraid to try? Are you afraid to stick your neck out for what you believe? Do you want to justify complacency?
It's okay, not everyone needs to stick their neck out. But you enable the very thing you fear by telling others not to. Don't impede people who are trying to make the world a better place
You don’t agree with the premise that managers should act more like leaders? It’s not stating how people are, it’s stating how they _should_ be. Does that make sense?
It seems clear to me from the way the article is presented that this isn't describing "what people in these roles do"; it's describing "what people with these mindsets do".
A "leader" isn't someone in the C-suite; it's someone who does these things. They have a leadership mindset, and should be put into leadership roles, but very rarely are.
A "manager" isn't someone with "manager" in their title; it's someone who does those things. They have a toxic "corporate management" mindset, whether they are actually in a managerial role or not.
I’ve both been rewarded for dissent from leadership throughout my career and had greater respect for and advocated more strongly for those willing to stick out their necks and disagree earnestly and productively when in leadership positions.
Dissent isn’t the same thing as sabotage. There’s healthy conflict and open disagreement which helps illuminate risks and gaps and uncover opportunities in productive ways and then there’s just stirring the pot or trying to tear things down without bringing alternative proposals to the conversation — being unwilling to contribute in positive ways if you don’t always get your way.
The latter kills the ability for the team to work well while the former is key to allowing colleagues bring insights and value to the team
There is an art to dissent, and this article doesn't touch on it. If dissent is just a wall of "no, we can't do this", it will not be met well. If dissent is framed as a takedown of a person or their work, it will not be met well. Dissent needs to be delivered in a diplomatic way that makes clear everyone is pulling in the same direction, and there is a better way to pull.
Some folks (eg younger me) are not interested in learning this art, and just want to say things and have everyone immediately see their genius. When I think about the times folks have done that to me, I didn't take it well.
I still can't think of situations where it paid off for the dissenter.
Maybe I'm limited by the small number of experiences I've had at work related to someone being disagreeable, or maybe it is rare to be rewarded for dissent even when "you're right"
Couple jobs ago they set a list of action items for everyone to follow to help productivity or whatever. One was stand at standups. I followed all the items to a T, including standing when everyone went back to sitting. I led new initiatives. I got more work done than my equal engineers. When the axe came, it was me who was let go first. The lesson I refuse to learn: stay in line, don't stand out.
> I followed all the items to a T, including standing when everyone went back to sitting [...] When the axe came, it was me who was let go first.
It doesn't sound like you were rewarded for your dissent from the group behavior, like standing up in a meeting (which is weird if everyone else is seated).
If you choose to act differently than "everyone" else (which can seem unusual, like you can't read the room), you're dissenting. You say something about being in line or out of line, but from your comment I don't know what you think you were doing.
Why did you choose to dissent from the team by being obliviously obedient and following rules "to the T" rather than going along with the team?
We were literally told to stand, so I stood. Just because everyone else got tired of following the rules that the C Suite took time to make, does that mean I should also stop following the rules? And standing during a standup so they don't go on and on and on like they always did made perfect sense to me. So the more wrongs, the more right?
But everyone else could tell that wasn't a rule that needed to be followed "to a T" as you describe
> Just because everyone else got tired of following the rules that the C Suite took time to make, does that mean I should also stop following the rules?
If someone asked me to do something dumb, wasn't there to talk about it, and everyone else present realized it was a dumb request that didn't need my rigourus obedience, yes. I would not follow a dumb rule that no one else was following. Standing when everyone else sits is dissent behavior among the group you are part of (you're not part of the C suite).
> And standing during a standup so they don't go on and on and on like they always did made perfect sense to me.
It sounds like this is the reason you chose to stand, even when everyone else around you indicated they were going to sit and be more comfortable and casual, you chose to be rigid and probably loomed over the meeting if everyone else was staring at your belt buckle.
> So the more wrongs, the more right?
No. I would suggest the takeaway here is that you may have been blind to how your actions were actually self-serving (you wanted short meetings, and standing made others feel rushed ... at least you hoped) and the reason you stuck to the rules when everyone else was relaxed was because you wanted to use the C suite rules to manipulate other people's behavior to shorten the meeting you didn't want to be part of. Again, you were the dissenter in this situation based on your own retelling.
Here's something not directly related that doesn't get mentioned enough, if at all:
Lack of empathy for managers from their teams and the organization.
Good managers are often caught between a rock and a hard place, trying to balance competing interests and navigate difficult situations, since they also have managers and business priorities. Depending on the team size, this pressure is almost on a logarithmic scale. I have seen people choose the IC path because they consider a manager's job too stressful, and they can be paid the same (or sometimes even more than their managers).
I agree with the general sentiment here in the comments section — the article sounds good at first glance, but it's missing the nuances that get in the way of a manager acting like a leader.
My experience has been quite different. Most places I have worked at have been good at selecting people who are very empathetic, and definitely an high degree of empathy for managers and understanding that their job involves balancing interesting, often conflicting ones.
The “common” experience is that managers are not very good and empathetic. Maybe the problem is indeed with the managers and how our systems make them so to begin with.
It nuances ”leader” and ”manager” from something you are to descriptions of problem-solving toolkits when dealing with people.
In that sense it could be reconstructed as ”soft power mode” and ”hard power mode” where the former inspires confidence and encourages creativity and the latter emphasizes compliance and alignment. Any person in a position of power will utilize strategies that could be seen as signs of either mode depending on the situation.
Honestly I think people are just going to use whatever definitions are most convenient for them to make their point. That’s the problem with vague terms.
Rather a manager mentality in a leadership role calls themselves a leader. True leaders rarely have to assert this notion, it is naturally assumed and respected by those around them. The world is awash with people ill-suited to "leading" people leading people. We are all suffering the overburdening of society with the "educated".
Hey ChatGPT, write me a blog post in a listicle format based on my video:
> Same crisis. Same pressure. Completely different responses.
> Managers love the ‘hire slow, fire fast’ mantra,” Simon says. “But leaders know that letting someone go isn’t about making an example—it’s about dignity
> A manager might say, “You’re not meeting expectations. Today’s your last day.” A leader takes a different approach:
> Managers love yes-men and yes-women—people who nod along and follow orders without question. Leaders actively seek out the people who will challenge them.
One of my worst managers, funnily enough, was just another autistic programmer, who to this day literally has no idea how badly he affected me. It actually makes me laugh, sometimes I see him on the street, and he has literally no idea, just a slight face of disdain when he sees me, almost as if I am some vague recollection of a memory of a poor performer who couldn't VIM fast enough.
I worked almost 12 hour days for him and I never complained about this behaviour, even after I quit. I gave him the full extent of my work and loyalty and he somehow never even understood that. To this day I am sure he has no idea of how much I put myself out for him.
Almost as if he thinks that work life and personal life are two completely separate non linked spheres of reality. His ignorance to this day is almost a point of sheer bafoonery and hilarity which brings me a bit of joy now when I remember him / see him.
EDIT > I wasn't going to read the article but when I saw comments of managers offended by some random article, I knew it would be good.
Its a good question and I am unsure why I would get a downvote a it delves into realms of philosophy. Ah I just realised its the offended manager. Anyway to answer the question, I think at a core level I just always felt that I should be loyal to my manager, and if I saw that after my sacrifice, that I was unappreciated, then I would leave, as my work was not for payment but to help people who needed it.
Once decided to leave, I felt as a final mark of respect I would both leave quietly, and more importantly I did not owe them the feedback, which would ofcourse help.
It sort of should make sense. I am often confused why people who decide to quit a company that has wronged them, would voluntarily provide feedback. I feel they only do it to vent, but control of ones emotions is an act of discipline one should not shirk in professional settings.
This is very wrong. The distinction is pretty simple: leaders choose what the goals are, managers direct subordinates to achieve the goals. Both are needed and people can both at the same time.
I bought into the “leader vs. manager” Kool-Aid for years—until I actually had to manage. Spoiler: the dichotomy is a myth. Once you’re in the seat, it’s all gray area. You’re not just “inspiring people,” you’re stuck between upper leadership and your team, juggling chaos while trying to keep the ship afloat.
Any manager who’s been in the trenches knows the real game is shielding your team while still getting things done. Be as much of a “leader” as you want, but without authority and accountability, you’re just cosplaying. The rah-rah leadership Kool-Aid is mostly there to keep people inspired while the actual decisions happen in rooms you’ll never be invited to.
Simon Sinek is far from the worst of the genre, but these aphorisms are much easier to say than they are to exemplify in practice. I’ve worked with more than one LinkedIn influencer with millions of followers, and their primary talent turned out to be saying inspiring things. They had enough experience and the sheen of big tech credibility to be taken seriously by aspirational juniors, but when you actually had hard stuff to solve they are not who you’d want to be in the trenches with.
Goofus yells and gets upset when things slip. He demands that someone fall on their sword.
Gallant gets curious about what systems were in place to prevent this and why they weren't sufficient. He understands that nobody is perfect and that we succeed by cooperating.
The thing articles and project management philosophies both miss is this: What is the fundamental math constraint that shapes a project? I personally believe it is NP growth and when you really understand it you see why things fail and what algorithms can help you succeed. You have a problem and resources to solve that problem. By trying all combinations of the resources you can decide what is the optimal solution. But it is NP growth so you can't actually search that space because the heat death of the universe is often waiting for you. The only time you should search the whole space is if the number of parameters is small enough that you can fit it all in one head and solve it. If it is too big for that then the only thing you can, and should, do is divide and conquer and keep doing that until you hit a leaf node small enough to put the problem completely in your head. People intuitively get this, but then they screw it up in predictable ways. After dividing they then accidentally recombine parts by sharing too much communication between parts. NP strikes again because there are too many parts to find an optimal solution now. Or, after they divide and find a local optimum, they 20/20 it and say 'had we combined we could have found a better solution' so they combine teams and fail the next project. Technically the combined team could have done it better, but NP time would have stopped you and you wouldn't have found that solution that the smaller, isolated, teams found. They think 'lets put things into a backlog and figure out what to attack one at a time' except it is an NP problem to order that backlog (and by the time you knock a few things off the top the things at the bottom are unrecognizable anyway) so NP strikes again. They divide and micro-manage from above which means they never actually divided and there are, again, too many pieces to search so NP strikes again. The solution is always this: 'Is this too much to fit in one head? Yes - divide / No - exhaustively search and implement. This gets to a core point here. The pyramid that divide and conquer creates must include communication restrictions between teams and resources carve-outs between teams or else you have failed to divide. However, -inside- a team you need to communicate and share resources in whatever is the most efficient way based on the problem you have carved out. So, it is possible to communicate too much, when you cross divisions. It is the right answer to hoard information in some cases, if the communication was designed to be limited to enforce a division.
I get a really bad vibe from this guy. I first came across him from a viral video where he was making claims about millennials in the workplace. In my opinion they were a mixture of obvious and wrong. And it was framed like he was some expert. But it later became obvious that it was basically an ad for a book he had out, and really he has no expertise or real world experience whatsoever. He's a grifter imo.
The writing is aspirational, yes, but why are so many quick to nitpick? It looks like you're reaching for reasons not listen. If you choose to not stick your neck out, so be it, but don't knock those who do. You'll only enable the thing you're afraid of.
The utility of Utopian writing is not to serve as a set of instructions to achieve Utopia. It is to inspire those to push for it. A Utopia is unobtainable, but it serves as a direction to pursue. The world changes, and so too must our actions, but the direction appears to hold constant for millennia. We're the only ones who can create a utopia, but we're also the ones who prevent us from reaching it. The choice is about which side you want to be on. Do you want to work towards that utopia? Will you sit silent watching others build? Will you justify your inaction? Or will you enable those who only want that future for themselves?
I really do want you all to ask yourselves: why are you so quick to dismiss those who want to inspire you to do great things?
I assume you aren't just some emotionless automate, so I'm pretty sure you do have dreams. In the words of Shia Laboef, just do it, make your dreams come true
> isn't a real shared goal any of us can work toward.
Why don't you tell me your utopia and let's see if that's true or not
Look, I get it. Dreams are important. But there's a difference between having personal goals and believing in some mythical perfect society that's just around the corner.
Whether or not you agree with my goals/dreams won't change the impossibility of your suggestion of a human utopia.
Goals don't need to be fully realized to be useful. Ambitious goals are never fully realized. This is like saying a compass is only useful if you travel all the way to the north pole.
To offer a concrete example, mathematicians failed to unify mathematics. They discovered it was impossible. But that's an important result, and there were other valuable intermediate results (like set theory).
There was an article here the other day about how the Sagrada Familia is nearly finished. Gaudi's original vision would have involved bulldozing a bunch of surrounding homes and businesses. That's unlikely to happen. Regardless, the project is considered a huge achievement in architecture.
> Goals don't need to be fully realized to be useful.
Maybe you're thinking of an aspiration? Goals are achievable.
> Ambitious goals are never fully realized.
"Unreachable aspirations are never fully realized" is accurate. However, I've reached many actual "ambitious goals" in life, because whether easy or difficult goals are things you can fully realize.
> This is like saying a compass is only useful if you travel all the way to the north pole.
I have no idea where this example came from and it seems to only be half explained. But, a compass is useful because it gives you direction -- not because you expect to reach the North Pole every time you check direction.
An aspiration provides value in the pursuit itself and the valuable discoveries you make along the way.
Aspiration: A journey (still valuable, but you might not reach or even have an exact destination)
Goal: A destination (As in "achievable" -- see "A" in S.M.A.R.T. goals, a very common framework for understanding how to set and use goals effectively)
Let's not confuse the two concepts. It serves no purpose and might actually get in the way of your success.
To be honest this is splitting hairs. If our disagreement is semantic, then I don't really care to discuss it further, you can use whatever terminology you please and it isn't a problem or something that needs to be hashed out.
Presenting a disagreement as a "misunderstanding" on my part because I don't use your terminology is disingenuous. I assure you, differences in terminology will not interfere in my success. Just like speaking a different language wouldn't interfere.
I will leave you with a final thought. If an aspiration is a goal that can't be realized - then we only know this in retrospect. All goals are possible until proven otherwise. Russell and Whitehead thought mathematics could be unified. Who are we to judge them as fools? They didn't know what we know, because they taught us.
I am not responsible for the commonly understood meaning and definitions of words in the English language.
People learn something new every day. This is your opportunity to learn how goals (which are always achievable) are different than things like wishes, daydreams, hopes, or even aspirations.
If you'd rather not learn, that's OK. But it is not disingenuous to correctly define a word when someone else is misusing it repeatedly.
> I am not responsible for the commonly understood meaning and definitions of words in the English language.
Yet your are responsible for your own misunderstanding of commonly understood meanings and definitions.
Let's have a look, shall we?
goal (noun)
1 : the end toward which effort is directed : aim
| The goal is high-speed rail travel.
Synonyms:
purpose aim plan objective intention
intent idea object ambition dream
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goal
Do you see a requirement of "must be obtainable"? Even the synonyms would tell you you're wrong. Surely you've made plans that have failed. Surely intentions and ideas. But regardless, there is still ambitions and dreams, which you specifically state are not included.
Let's have a look at another word, just for fun...
aspirational (adjective)
: of, relating to, or characterized by aspiration
| aspirational goals
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aspirational
I am sorry, it is YOU who are lacking the understanding of common words. Don't be so smug when you're so trivially proven wrong. If you do care about being correct, as you try to convince us, your only "out" is to update your belief.
You had aspirations of proving us wrong, they gave you direction, but you failed.
Thank you for the active demonstration of the utility of unachievable goals.
Thank you for the lesson. If I could return the favor, you may be interested in linguistic descriptivism. You probably won't agree with it but it may be educational nonetheless.
I'm always happy to put a smile on someone's face, but I think if you reflect on it you'll find that you have evidence to support the impossibility of goals you believe impossible (in other words, they have been "proven otherwise" in the past). If you've made up your mind without any evidence, well, you do you but that may be a belief that hinders you rather than helps.
Guest: You know how sometimes you can pronounce the same word differently? Well—two things can be true.
Interviewee: Wait, what are you saying?
Guest: When you're from the Midwest, you say 'meeyulk' for milk or 'peeloh' for pillow, and that's not incorrect. It's just, you know, two things can be true. So, that's what I was saying.
Interviewer: Yeah. [wideyed confusion]
Guest: So, what's that all about?
(hint: it isn't linguistic descriptivism & I'm not the guest in this scenario)
All goals begin with imagination, daydreams, or wishes. Whichever you want to call it. Every single one of them begins in your head before they become reality. So what's your beef here? I know you're not that dumb, as you're actively demonstrating the capacity for metacognition. So what are you actually trying to argue?
Besides, so what if all your dreams don't come true. Do you still not have them? I'm sure you've settled for things. Did your idealistic dream not help you make those decisions? It'd be lunacy to suggest that they did not. There would be no compromise or settling if this higher desire did not exist. Similarly, in the other direction, the fear or dystopia.
Do you not have 5 year, 10 year, and other long term goals? Do these not change? I'd call you a liar if you were able to pursue precisely the path you thought things would take over a long period of time, because I know you're not omniscient.
*Your lived experience demonstrates the utility of wishful thinking.*
Good god, my pet cat has dreams and desires that she'll never obtain yet help her pursue her more realistic goals. There's the saying "Shoot for the moon, land in the trees". Shooting for the moon gave you direction and landing in the trees still gave you progress, right?
To be quite frank with you, you wouldn't be making tone arguments if you had a substantive point to make. And their use of italics is really not so different from your use of a "hint" parenthetical.
Reading between the lines, I'm pretty sure your real disagreement here is aesthetic. Perhaps it feels icky or touchy feely to you. And your semantic and tone arguments are reverse engineered from that perspective. But if I'm wrong I'd be interested to hear you answer GP's question.
The facts of the matter are that I went back and forth with you, patiently and in good faith, and tried to understand what your point was. And as you became more sarcastic, patronizing, and eventually outright insulting, I realized you simply didn't have one. You didn't like this idea on it's face and were never prepared to give it an earnest hearing. I can only speculate as to why (and no, I don't imagine I can read your mind and wouldn't be surprised to learn my speculation was incorrect).
You've every right to feel that way, but I'm as disappointed in that outcome as you are. Take care and I'll see you around.
I'm sorry, if you want an earnest hearing there's a triplicate form you need to fill out. Now you know for next time. I'm so sorry for your disappointment and hope you find a soothing corner of the internet that agrees with your worldview soonest.
For what it's worth, I've not yet met an LLM that both produces coherent text and will talk past you & try to get under your skin. I'm sure it could be done with an open source model and elbow grease but my read on the situation is that there's a person on the other side of the screen, who for whatever reason had some kind of mental block around this subject matter.
Oh well. Wishing you unachievably bold aspirations. To paraphrase the Tao Te Ching, the path that is clear does not go all the way.
Yeah that's kinda what got me too. But whatever it writing those responses (troll or machine) is becoming less coherent as we talk more. I'm not sure if LLM but it does remind me of that part where they get stuck on something and will correct for a split second before going back to whatever they were doing. But I'm not sure, it's just weird and I'm certain the writer is not being genuine
I'm not sure why they're trying to manufacture outrage but I've been seeing interactions like that appear more and more on HN.
You're right. I think that was mentioned a number of comments ago. We haven't been shy about noting that the conversation is going in circles and you've failed to address our points or present alternatives. You have absolute confidence in your solution, yet have not elaborated on what that is or how it solves the problems we've discussed. You've continued to hyperfixate on an alias. You've continued to complain about an inability to do things a certain way while we've stated that your way also works. I mean that's what an alias is...
The problem isn't that we disagree with you, the problem is you are not making an attempt to have a productive conversation. So we gave up.
This isn't about bots or mental blocks. It's about you needing everyone who disagrees with you to be defective somehow—artificial, mentally blocked, aesthetically driven, anything but right.
Your fortune cookie sign-off does no justice to the work you claim to be referencing. I guess if you spend your days working with agreeable LLMs, it is very inconvenient and upsetting when a person comes along who doesn't agree and polish up every concept you espouse.
Literally dehumanizing a person who doesn't agree with you always puts you in a good group of similar thinkers from history.
I also enjoyed noticing how you and the person you sense agrees with you is a "we" - but I'm not a person, apparently because I wasn't swept off my feet by your eloquent arguments.
Of course, everyone in the room has already read the same leadership tips, likely earning you plenty of eye rolls and detracting from the straightforward, honest cooperation and on-task communication that are the backbone of all successful teams and companies.
And, bad managers play politics with information privy to them.
> 2. Managers Weaponize Policy. Leaders Bend Rules for People.
This is absolutely true. There is a saying that comes to my mind, said by a good manager, "Break the rules and justify it, I am here to ratify it"
> 3. Managers “Fire Fast.” Leaders Coach, Then Help People Land Softly.
Also true, bad managers consider people as "resources" to be used and disposed off.
> 5. Managers Reward Compliance. Leaders Reward Dissent.
This is directly related to the control issue. Compliance means control is easy. But this will not prevent them from blame dumping and un-ethical acts.
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