I find it surprising actually how much these seniority rules are well-defined in many cultures, but in Brazil there is strong variation - even in the same geography. For example, a colleague who is learning Brazilian Portuguese was under the impression that "você" and "tu" were the equivalent of "vous/tu" or "Sie/du". In reality, they are just different regional ways of saying the informal you. In Brazilian Portuguese is to call someone "o Senhor/a Senhora" based on their gender, with a singular third person declination. And in the countryside, it is common to hear people use "Doutor/Doutora" the same way they would use the normal formal language when addressing educated people or land-owners.
Another example many people outside Brazil find interesting: in my family we were taught to never use the formal towards anyone. The rationale is that everyone is equal and that using the formal language was disrespectful because it created an artificial distance between us and the other person. We were also taught never to use the formal language when praying for the same reason. However, other people are taught to use the formal language towards bosses and elders, also with a respect rationale, and some other folks in Brazil (even from big cities) actually require that their children address them with formal language. So now when in doubt I use the formal language with people that are much older than I am although that feels utterly unnatural to me, but I always make people comfortable to use the informal with me as I personally find this to be more respectful.
Just one more comment: in Brazil it is unfortunately the case that some offices have a standard treatment like "your excellency", etc, which are nominally meant to respect the office but in reality become a kind of test of compliance and obedience. I recall in particular one incident where an attorney presenting in front of the Supreme Court was severely reprimanded for not address justices with the proper term. Personally, I am not sure that required compliance with a style - by regulation or by societal expectations - is indeed "respect" if it is not matched with actions and posture that really reflect due consideration towards the other person.
> Another example many people outside Brazil find interesting: in my family we were taught to never use the formal towards anyone. The rationale is that everyone is equal and that using the formal language was disrespectful because it created an artificial distance between us and the other person. We were also taught never to use the formal language when praying for the same reason.
Interestingly this is why Quakers continued to address people as thou/thee long after everyone else abandoned the practice. Thou was originally the "informal" second person singular pronoun in English, "you" was plural. People used "thou" (the familiar form) in conversations with God. People used "you" as a singular pronoun to be polite. Eventually, "you" overtook thou.
But the Quakers believed that using "you" to show respect was anti-egalitarian and resisted the trend for a long time.
Nowadays because "thou" appears a lot in the King James Bible it tends to be associated with formal, archaic language, so if anything the connotation is the reverse.
Even today, this tends to be the case in European languages that distinguish familiar and polite pronouns (what linguists call the T-V distinction). God tends to be an exception to the usual T-V rules.
The reason for this is that in all these languages, thou started out as simply the singular and you as the plural, with no politeness dimension at all. Using the plural pronoun (or third person pronouns, etc) for politeness was a fad that only spread around Europe in the Middle Ages (give or take).
Religious formulae, however, are generally extremely resistant to language change. This is a very consistent finding across the world; some of our best evidence in historical linguistics comes from religious texts (such as the Rigveda, the Avesta, etc). Religion tends to be, not surprisingly, a highly conservative and ritualised domain.
Thus, prayers in European languages with the T-V distinction generally retain the use of T forms when addressing God. There are all sorts of lovely folk explanations for this, but the real reason is basically just because prayers predate the T-V system altogether.
> Early English translations of the Bible used the familiar singular form of the second person, which mirrors common usage trends in other languages. The familiar and singular form is used when speaking to God in French (in Protestantism both in past and present, in Catholicism since the post–Vatican II reforms), German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Scottish Gaelic and many others (all of which maintain the use of an "informal" singular form of the second person in modern speech). In addition, the translators of the King James Version of the Bible attempted to maintain the distinction found in Biblical Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek between singular and plural second-person pronouns and verb forms, so they used thou, thee, thy, and thine for singular, and ye, you, your, and yours for plural.
I won't claim this as the one true answer, but one potential reason is that it is encouraged by many religions, including Christian denominations, to have a personal relationship with God. To put it another way, it is exactly God's power which enables God to have a personal relationship with each of us while we, constrained by our own humanity, are only capable of maintaining familiarity with a relatively small number of people.
In English, some prayers came directly from the King James Bible. The singular second-person pronoun in those prayers corresponded with the informal second-person pronoun in the normal spoken or written English of that time. It would have been weird to change the "hallowed be thy name" written in the Bible to "hallowed be your name" when actually praying just to be more formal towards God. Being formal would also not reflect the teaching that Christians have been adopted as sons and daughters of God. I read that "thou" indicated familiarity and affection like between family members and friends and lovers, whereas "ye" indicated distance, and using "ye" towards someone that you'd normally call "thou" would indicate you had a problem with them. So calling God "ye" would require you to rephrase passages in the Bible and might connote that you don't think God has a friendly or familial sort of relationship with Christians, but is far removed from humans or even antagonistic towards them.
In his prayer Jesus did not address YHWH as Adonai (“Lord”) as is customary in Judaism, but as “Papa/Dad”, Abba in Aramaic, and taught his disciples this form of address.
I feel like the American version of intra-family respect variations is “Father” vs “Dad”.
In my family growing up, my dad’s name was “Dad” from my POV. “Father” was a strange-to-me formality that only a couple of my friends’ families use. “Hey Dad, wanna grab lunch?” is technically using a title of respect, but feels way different than “Hello, Father. Would you like to make lunch plans?”
My kids call me Dad, unless we’re greeting each other like Jerry and Newman on Seinfeld to be funny, which is something always initiated by them: “Hello, Father.” “Hello, Daughter.” kid giggles
One time I heard my kid talking to his dad and calling him “Sir”. That felt utterly foreign to me. If I called my own dad “Sir”, he’d rightfully have assumed I was being a smartass. There’s never another situation where I’d address him that way.
Or the judge who sued his condominium demanding its employees call him "doutor" (Your Honor)...
As a Brazilian raised to not care about this stuff, I would say even rebelled a bit, it was weird to basically be required to do so once I reached adulthood. I remember getting in front of a sheriff and having to address him as "doutor". I remember talking to an intern in law firms and he corrected me when I addressed him by name saying, "No, it's DOUTOR Adriano".
Gee, let's not even mention the medical field... veterinarians and nutritionists want to be called "doutor"...
I moved from Brazil to Sweden and it is hard talking to medical doctors, it is so indoctrinated into us.
me: Hi Doctor... I have X problem, Doctor. Could you give me some treatment, Doctor?
Doctor: You can just call me Ana
me: Yes Doctor Ana
Even for professionals that don't have titles if they have authority over you, you need to use the title. VERY evident when talking to police officers always say "Senhor" (sir), police have the power to really screw with you without any reason so better to show respect. You never know when you run into a police officer who enjoys screwing people over.
The Germans are also pretty ridiculous around titles, in that not only can you have multiple titles, and each are mentioned, but you can also have several copies of each. So someone can be Herr Doktor Doktor Professor.
My country has a fairly high % of PhD holders, but nowhere near enough jobs for them, so they end up getting regular jobs (e.g. I have a friend who got a PhD in laser physics, who now plays with AI models for license plate recognition).
These people usually leave the PhD off their CV, as some employers frown upon it, as they think the person will have higher expectations and be hard to work with.
Most people would think working on AI models for computer vision problems is a perfectly reasonable outcome for a STEM PhD, even if it's not a direct continuation of the thesis research.
Turning a physics PhD into any sort of modeling, statistical analysis or engineering work is pretty normal in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more physics PhDs working in finance than academia and government research labs.
> These people usually leave the PhD off their CV, as some employers frown upon it, as they think the person will have higher expectations and be hard to work with.
Most of them are hard to work with. As is with any people that climb on titles. They consider themselves special. That's why it is difficult for them to integrate in a team.
Are PhDs ever taken for social climbing? It's absolutely wild to me that somebody would go through that for status. Doesn't generally give you much of it and costs you a ton in opportunity cost and stress (at least based on the cases I know lol).
The senior title comes first -- Prof. Dr. Dr.
Honorary doctorates are "honoris causa", abbreviated h.c. If you get multiple of these, you write Dr. h.c. mult.
So you occasionally find Prof Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. X (would have been the correct way to address Umberto Eco, for instance).
After introductions, people generally name only the most senior title, if any.
Funnily enough, você itself was once more formal, having been a contraction of "vossa mercê."
I'm surprised to hear that your family did not use formal language even in prayer. May I ask what religion(s) you grew up practicing? Catholic prayers often use antiquated, formal language (like "vós"). I don't know enough about Candomblé, but at least Nagô Candomblé is pretty highly formalized in the sense that Yorùbá is the liturgical language.
The "Doutor/Doutora" thing bothers me. I see it all the time with my in-laws empregadas, who use it to refer to my father-in-law (who's an MD) and my mother-in-law (who isn't). It feels weirdly obsequious in that context, even though there's a very clear power and class hierarchy.
It can't be a coincidence that my Mexican family we were also taught to not use the formal 'usted' as it's too distant and actually has the opposite effect of making others feel disrespected. It's intentionally used when talking badly about someone similar to 'well YOU {usually bad thing but the emphasis on the formal you makes this feel more impactful}'
Another example many people outside Brazil find interesting: in my family we were taught to never use the formal towards anyone. The rationale is that everyone is equal and that using the formal language was disrespectful because it created an artificial distance between us and the other person. We were also taught never to use the formal language when praying for the same reason. However, other people are taught to use the formal language towards bosses and elders, also with a respect rationale, and some other folks in Brazil (even from big cities) actually require that their children address them with formal language. So now when in doubt I use the formal language with people that are much older than I am although that feels utterly unnatural to me, but I always make people comfortable to use the informal with me as I personally find this to be more respectful.
Just one more comment: in Brazil it is unfortunately the case that some offices have a standard treatment like "your excellency", etc, which are nominally meant to respect the office but in reality become a kind of test of compliance and obedience. I recall in particular one incident where an attorney presenting in front of the Supreme Court was severely reprimanded for not address justices with the proper term. Personally, I am not sure that required compliance with a style - by regulation or by societal expectations - is indeed "respect" if it is not matched with actions and posture that really reflect due consideration towards the other person.