This discussion is flagged but in the interest of transparency and for anyone who stumbles across this thread it's good to know that this person has now been released:
"Based on her inspection of his birth certificate and Social Security card, Riggans said she found no probable cause for the charge. However, the state prosecutor insisted the court lacked jurisdiction over Lopez-Gomez’s release because U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had formally asked the jail to hold him."
I wonder what the betting market odds are on the possibility that the Trump administration will use this as a test case for deporting a US citizen?
You're the one who seems to be ungrounded from the news:
"The homegrowns are next, the homegrowns. You've got to build about five more places," Trump said to Bukele, an apparent reference to prison space that would be needed in El Salvador to house U.S. citizens.
"Asked again about the idea during Monday's news conference, Trump confirmed he has ordered U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi to explore whether it might be a legal and cost-effective way to house American prisoners.
Trump also suggested his administration might send U.S. citizens to be incarcerated in other countries."
> I see your point, but that’s not deporting, it would be outsourcing the prison.
How is sending someone out of the US to be imprisoned in another country not deporting them from the US? To imprison them outside the US they have to first expel them from the US. In other words: deport them.
Only someone ungrounded from reality would claim that literally deporting people is not deportation.
The courts haven't allowed many of the high-profile deportation of non-citizens that have occurred recently, including the single one that is getting the most attention, having both issued orders in advance and after the fact, to, as yet, absolutely no substantive effect on executive branch behavior.
So, while other things may be debatable, what is not debatable is the clear fact that "the courts won't allow it" is not sufficient to establish "it will not happen".
And how do you get a person from the US to this outsourced prison? By deporting them.
This administration has absolutely shown they will deport anyone for any reason. This is just the temperature being raised slowly so us frogs don’t notice.
Reference: just read the news. There are multiple stories about multiple people with the same outcome. No due process.
You probably shouldn't accuse others of being ungrounded in reality if you don't keep up with reality.
Regardless of what it is called, it is unconstitutional and illegal; however, that does not seem to matter to this administration. Trump is currently defying a 9-0 SCOTUS ruling that he facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia to the US. His administration has even admitted Garcia was deported in error but still isn't doing anything about it. Now we have ICE holding provable US citizens. Maybe with that context you can understand why some might be concerned that citizens will be "accidentally" disappeared.
The news is both literally reality, and, more substantively, an important means of accessing the more distant reality that seems to be your concern. Individual news stories often contain inaccuracies and even the accurate bits may be cherry-picked to suit an agenda, which is one reason that accessing the underlying reality requires wide reading of diverse news sources and critical engagement with other information sources. But avoiding the news does not improve your access to reality,
By your own admission, you have no reasonable basis from which to draw any general conclusion about the news, having only incidental and accidental contact with it.
> You guys think citizens are getting deported because of sensational reporting.
Literally no one has said that they think citizens are getting deported at this time.
Several people have expressed concerns that the executive failing to observe the law and obey judicial orders with regard to the treatment of non-citizens, combined with the executives overtly stated intent to deport non-citizen dissenters to the same Salvadoran prison that non-citizens have been deported to in defiance of court orders, raises an imminent near-future concern of the same kind of lawless deportation of citizens as has already taken place or noncitizens
> Have you forgotten about the justice system and the constitution?
The justice system and constitution are not magic, and they only constrain executive action if (1) the executive chooses to observe the constitution and present people to the justice system before taking action, or (2) the executive chooses to observe the Constitution and obeys orders from the justice system to correct the resulting improper state of affairs after failing #1, or (3) the Congress exercises its impeachment power to remove the executive in consequence of the failures of #1 and #2, or (4) some outside force, itself acting extraconstitutionally, responds to the failure of #1-#3 by forcibly constraining or removing the executive.
Were one paying attention to the news -- even ignoring the claims presented in the news and only using it as a source to find links to official government statements, judicial decisions, and similar non-media sources -- one might be aware that #1 and #2 is precisely what is not happening that is at the center of recent controversies in which the executive branch is embroiled, and there is no immediate sign of #3 or #4, either.
> I am very much ungrounded from the news, I don’t consume it outside of what I stumble across elsewhere. That’s a feature, not a bug.
No, ignorance of current events except what you encounter incidentally without intent and structure is not a "feature", unless your goal is to be an easily-led sheep.
> I see your point, but that’s not deporting, it would be outsourcing the prison.
It's not merely outsourcing (a term which encompasses what occurs with domestic private prisons) if the US doesn't retain the same full control as it would over domestic prisons, including responsiveness to US court orders regarding innocence, conditions, etc., the avoidance of which is overtly the point of the Trump eagerness. It is much more like deportation than anything else, though, especially where the "prisons" are, in fact, labor camps, you could probably make a case that it is simply reviving the slave trade, rather than deportation.
If you are ungrounded from the news, don't make smartass comments like "Nobody is going to deport citizens. You seem to have become ungrounded in your reality."
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