So, the term "Burner" is associated with temporary cell phones used by criminals to avoid wiretaps. Presumably that's the inspiration for the name and the concept.
What happens if your app indeed becomes a salvage for criminals? What's your policy around government requests for information about the person who used the number during a duration? Would you cooperate with subpoenas, or is this really only private on a social but not legal level?
Seems as usage requires a $200 phone on a 2 year contract (or $500+ on an unlocked iPhone), plus an Apple ID, plus a credit card, plus network traffic will still be pushed through a single point it seems too expensive/traceable to be truly disposable and anonymous.
Can't Burner collect money from users for temporary numbers and then delete all records of number assignments when the numbers are "burned" by users? Twilio's recordkeeping might be more persistent though. Are there laws which effectively require Burner to maintain records? If not, Burner would keep a persistent record that User123 paid $2 for a number but could conveniently delete other identifying information.
In my home country, you can buy prepaid SIM cards in supermarkets just like everything else, you just pick up them from shelves and pay at check out. Everything is completely anonymous, nothing is registered all. I never heard anyone express concerns about it. It seems so obvious, that when I came to the US, I couldn't understand amazement in eyes of a clerk at a gas station, when I asked if they had any SIM cards I could buy.
The phone service in the US is also ridiculous expensive but it's a different matter.
to be fair, I don't think the parent comment was trying to moralize anything. I think it is a legitimate question to ask about their policy regarding handing info over to law enforcement and what not. A question worthy of an answer.
It is certainly a fair question, one that deserves a clear answer. Our first principle in thinking about privacy is to be clear to our users in what we are and are not doing with their information.
We designed Burner explicitly and thoughtfully around user-to-user privacy and anonymity. Burner enables users to communicate by voice and text without exchanging their "real" (ie permanent, or even semi-permanent a la Google Voice) numbers, while still using the familiar form factors of phone calls and SMS, and without requiring their counterparties to download apps or join a network.
Burner can be used for anything from dating and craigslist transactions to posting publicly on twitter, to pure entertainment and other things we haven't thought of yet.
The way Burner works, very explicitly, is as a bridge between your phone and others. In other words, calls run over your mobile carrier and your counterparty's carrier, via a bridge that we manage, so that your counterparty doesn't see your callerID endpoint. SMS messages are slightly different technically, but effectively similar. Presuming your counterparty is not on Burner, on their end it's just like a regular phone call or SMS -- ie on their mobile or wireline carrier, on their phone hardware, etc.
It should be obvious given the above that we have no control over these 3rd-party carriers, and we certainly aren't in a position to direct their policies and procedures. We also work with 3rd parties like Twilio for other parts of the number issuance and telelphony process, rackspace for hosting, and so on. It should also be obvious that we have no control over hardware, software, or 3rd-party apps (or malware) on your counterparties' phones.
Given all of the above, Burner was explicitly not designed as a product that's for or meant to be marketed for encrypted or otherwise absolute, leakproof anonymous communication channels. (There are other services available for this, like Tor and Silentcircle, and many very legitimate uses for them, as I'm sure many HN members know.)
We've tried to be thoughtful and clear in our communications, terms of service, and privacy policies about our service, both in terms of what we don't say, and what we do say (various specific uses, for example, are very explicitly against our TOS). We would also be happy post more clearly about our processes (at least to the degree we can), if that would help users make more informed decisions about whether to use Burner.
We are a U.S. corporation operating in the U.S -- in case it's not obvious, we are obliged to and intend to comply with U.S. laws and valid court orders that apply to us. That said, as a company value and personally, we strongly respect the principles of free speech and have lots of concerns about the current state of affairs with respect to wiretapping and the laws that apply to it. We will do everything we can to ensure that any laws or law enforcement requests are indeed applicable and valid, to take as "pro-user" a privacy position as possible within our legal and privacy framework, and to continue to communicate clearly with our users about what we are and aren't doing.
Perfectly clear. Thank you. I think in a case like this having it explicitly stated that you'll protect our user-to-user privacy AND fully comply with applicable laws and LEO requests removes most of the doubt. And that makes it pretty obvious that if we are the 1% that uses this service for evil doing, we are not to expect much in the way of privacy. I think that actually makes things better for the other 99% that have no plans to do evil. I don't think your average Craigslist seller or online dater is going to be that concerned over it. A drug dealer might be... should be. And that makes things better for everyone. I can think of a few uses cases I could apply to this service. The rates seem reasonable to me (having done zero comparison shopping). Unfortunately, I don't do iOS... so I'm unable to be a customer at this time. But best of luck to you.
FWIW, I have seen mentions in some of the coverage that they plan an Android version (if that indeed would help you). Given the deep integration with the phone dialer and other device hooks as well as the in-app purchasing model, I can understand why they wanted to start with a single mobile platform (whatever it may be).
Not taking it personally. heretohelp's comment history suggests a proclivity to unnecessary confrontation and aggressive tone.
It's obviously a question you could ask about any service ("Google, are you concerned about criminals using Gmail to conduct criminal business?"), but it seems particularly worth addressing when the name of your product evokes usage by drug dealers and mobsters to evade law enforcement.
The Wire was created by a journalist with deep first-hand knowledge of the subject matter. It's a work of fiction, but nonetheless contains many nuggets of truth.
The show dramatized and moralized specific subjects, such as burners, for the sake of creating a narrative. Further, it's details built on anecdote. Which is why it's such a great show, but it's not appropriate fodder for discussing politics and technology unless you're a clown like Falkvinge.
What happens if your app indeed becomes a salvage for criminals? What's your policy around government requests for information about the person who used the number during a duration? Would you cooperate with subpoenas, or is this really only private on a social but not legal level?