European VAT makes it difficult for American companies to compete in Europe. US has no VAT, making it easier for European companies to compete in America...
Combined with the fact that the US is the de-facto largest benefactor of NATO, Ukraine, UN, etc... then the US is getting shafted by the EU and Trump is correct in seeking ways to mitigate that.
Applying this economical pressure on the EU is a valid strategy, IMHO.
European companies pay VAT in Europe.
American companies pay VAT in Europe.
European companies do not pay VAT in US.
American companies do not pay VAT in US.
> "American companies pay VAT in Europe. European companies do not pay VAT in US."
VAT is a significant income stream for the EU. They take that money and re-invest it into their economy in an uncompetitive manner, whilst constantly propping up more anti-competitive regulation (which harms American businesses).
Have you looked at EU countries budgets? We "invest" in social security and public health systems. Our defense budgets go in large part to buy arms from the US, and Musk complains if we decide to prop up Arianespace for some defense satellites while threatening to cutoff Starlink for Ukraine paid by Poland. Have you looked at how much money your DoD sends abroad (and how much of it is pork)? You're literally telling us to be more protectionist, and then expect something different.
I don't really care what you invest the money into, the point is that the VAT is a mechanism which messes with the concept of a free global market and it leads to unfair competition and an unleveled playing field. If you combine it with other factors (such as the fact that the US is the sole guarantor of Europe's defense) - the US is in the right for challenging the European economy.
US sales tax is *significantly* lower than VAT, varies by state (allowing for all kinds of loopholes), and applies to fewer categories of products and services sold. No point arguing this, VAT is a protectionist and anti-competitive tax and the US has a right to challenge it.
Why are you arguing this point? It’s de-facto cheaper and easier for European companies to compete in the American markets, than the other way around.
How is it protectionist if the European companies also pay it?
You are arguing about rules that apply to all companies competing in Europe and then extrapolating that to say that “American companies competing in Europe” are mistreated.
If I read you correctly you're saying that a tax imposed on the consumers in a country benefits the country as a whole and thus aslo the companies operating in that country, which make it unfair to foreign companies? Is that really what you're arguing?
We started this conversation with you seemingly not understanding how VAT messes with free trade, and it sounds to me like you're in a different place now. Feel free to keep arguing over semantics all day long, I'll leave it at that.
My place hasn’t changed at all. Everything I’ve said is internally consistent. You are welcome to view any form of taxation as an impediment to “free trade” but that’s not how competition works. Feel free to continue believing that taxation is inherently protectionist, I’ll leave it at that.
There's "taxation", and then there is "taxation". VAT is an incredibly aggressive and overreaching version of "taxation", and it has severe implications on free trade with Europe. I'm not sure why you won't acknowledge this.
And by the way - plenty of economists view taxation as impediment to free trade.
I’m not sure why you won’t acknowledge that a tax that affects domestic and foreign companies equally is not protectionist. But here we are.
I’m not saying that taxes don’t have an impact on the economy, or the business environment, or growth, or profits…of course they do! Maybe the tax will lower demand which makes investment less appealing, and so less investment from Americans happens as a result. But there's also less investment from the Europeans in that case! And most of all, it has nothing to do with the competitiveness of American products in the European market, because the European products face the same tax. VAT does not distort the relative price between European and foreign products.
If you want to say that tax revenue is used for subsidies that are anticompetitive — well money is fungible, you can’t blame that specifically on VAT revenue, and you should be making an argument against subsidies, not the VAT. But then you will need to address the many ways in which the US subsidizes its own industries.
For those who don't follow the link, here's an extract from the article explaining the core situation:
Imagine a car that costs $30,000 to produce before tax. Now compare four scenarios:
1) BMW sells the car in Germany (domestic sale): Germany’s VAT (let’s say 20% for simplicity) is added on the final sale. The German consumer pays 20% VAT, i.e., an extra $6,000, for a total price of $36,000. BMW forwards that $6,000 to the German government as VAT.
2) BMW exports the car to the U.S.: Since the car is exported, BMW does not charge German VAT. Any VAT BMW paid on parts or inputs is refunded by the German tax authority. The U.S. buyer pays the $30,000 price, and since the U.S. has no federal VAT, there’s no equivalent federal tax on that sale. (A state sales tax might apply at the point of sale, but we’ll come back to that.) The key point: the German government collects no VAT on an item consumed in the U.S.. This makes complete sense because that car’s being enjoyed by an American buyer, not a German resident.
3) GM sells the car in the U.S. (domestic sale): The U.S. has no VAT, so the American consumer pays $30,000 (ignoring any state sales tax). No federal consumption tax is collected. (In states with a sales tax, the consumer might pay, say, 7% extra to the state government, but again, the federal treatment is no tax.)
4) GM exports the car to Germany: When the car arrives in Germany, it faces the same 20% VAT as any car sold in Germany. So a German customer buying the American-made car pays $30,000 + $6,000 VAT = $36,000. That $6,000 goes to the German government. From GM’s perspective, it doesn’t owe U.S. tax on that export sale (since the U.S. doesn’t tax exports of goods), but its product will bear German VAT when consumed in Germany.
What outcome do we have here? In Germany, both the BMW and the GM car cost the same $36,000 after tax, and the German government collects VAT on both. In the U.S., both cars cost $30,000 before any state sales taxes, and the U.S. government collects no federal consumption tax on either. Each country taxes consumption within its borders—no matter where the product came from—and does not tax consumption outside its borders. This is precisely the goal of destination-based taxation: neutrality. Consumers in each country face the same tax on a given product, whether it’s domestically produced or imported. And neither country’s producers carry their home consumption tax as a “ball and chain” when they go compete in foreign markets.
Combined with the fact that the US is the de-facto largest benefactor of NATO, Ukraine, UN, etc... then the US is getting shafted by the EU and Trump is correct in seeking ways to mitigate that.
Applying this economical pressure on the EU is a valid strategy, IMHO.