Did Ukraine buy any F-16’s? No. They’ve benefitted from the generosity of the United States since 2017, and thanks in large part to that generosity they succeeded in the defense of Kyiv in 2022. Now it’s 2025 and the war has been stalemated for a couple of years. Does the United States have an open-ended obligation to continue supporting, at its own expense, yet another forever war on the other side of the world?
The United States is still being taken for granted. And I have to laugh at the implication that the American economy will be ruined by the effect on the American arms industry when almost every American ally was neglecting their own military, instead taking American security guarantees for granted.
Interesting how the exact phrases "forever war," "open-ended obligation," and "taken for granted" keep coming up. Always in comments that lack critical thought or explanation, and never support these talking points and just take them as a given.
It's an attempt to pretend that real USA screwups, like Vietnam and Iraq II, are at all similar to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So, philwelch, please compare and contrast. Without just echoing what you've heard, what are the pros and cons of supporting Ukraine in fighting off Russia?
ETA: Also "on the hook." As though Ukraine is forcing us to give them money?
F-16 arrived from Netherlands as USA was unwilling to supply them.
About defense of Kyiv, it has nothing to do with usa generosity and everything to do with creativity and a lot of luck. i'll suggest to read about how it was managed. there is a 50 pager released by uk miliary on this topic
> F-16 arrived from Netherlands as USA was unwilling to supply them.
Even more to my point then. If it wasn’t even the United States that gave them free fighter jets but a third country, how exactly did the US get stuck with an obligation to continue providing support?
> About defense of Kyiv, it has nothing to do with usa generosity
The United States provided six years of military aid to Ukraine prior to the 2022 invasion. If none of that aid actually helped them, I guess it was all wasted and there’s no problem discontinuing it.
you should google what kind of military aid usa provided to ukraine between 2014 to 2022. if it won't help you, probably your internet wasted and there's no problem discontinuing it.
can't find it :( looking myself for an hour already. too much junk on internet and it pushes only "new" stuff.
but to sum up:
- ukraine messed up by not anticipating attack from belorus through chernobyl
- didn't anticipate russian airborn forces flying to hostomel airport on few dozens of helicopters and taking over it (as preparation for full blown deployment on 2 dozen of planes)
got lucky with:
- battle of ivankiv delayed russian forces moving to kyiv
- shelled the crap out of hostomel airport, causing russians to loose control over it (airborn forces on planes literally made u-turn in the air ). i think only a couple of russians survived it.
- blew up a few dams of small rivers, turning large area to impassable swamps what prevented russian forces from getting to hostomel to support paratroopers there.
there was some russian unit of national guard or swat that somehow outrun rest of russian army and they decided to show initiative and play "capture the flag" in kyiv (not clear what exactly they planned), but they did manage to drive into kyiv in a couple of cars, and were all hunted down and killed within few hours
The United States is still being taken for granted. And I have to laugh at the implication that the American economy will be ruined by the effect on the American arms industry when almost every American ally was neglecting their own military, instead taking American security guarantees for granted.