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Nah, Swedish aerotech already out matches both Russia in terms of production capacity, arguably 6th if you ignore stealth, weapons range and weapons reliability. And already beats China in terms of technology, they're just now producing 5th gen airframes with copied tech, where Sweden isn't just following.

The EU without the US can already produce 5th gen, the selling point of the F35 was 6th gen compatible with 7th gen (NGAD).

Russia is still flying more 4th then 5th gen fighters, because they can't get their bricks off the ground. Why would the EU want to copy the same mistakes of their enemy?



>Russia is still flying more 4th then 5th gen fighters

Just like any other military including the US, no?


No, because the US could fly them, (assumedly), but doesn't. Where my understanding is Russia can't keep their fleet maintained let alone produce more. You don't use gorilla air tactics and bomb civilian infrastructure if you have other options. Russia is smart enough to know the value of winning hearts and minds, but they don't. Why not? Because they can't is the only reasonable conclusion I've seen

I don't have access to perfect information, but I find the reports that Russia is unable to maintain their entire fleet creditable, and believe and/or trust the experts who confirm this analysis.


As far as I know the US military still has more 4gen jets than 5gen.

Obviously Russia has no 5gen at all (or just a few 5gen Su-57, if we going to name them 5gen).

Anyway, my point is that as of now Russia has no need for gen5 and can't afford it anyway, just like about anyone else except for the US and a few countries that have them but at the same time have to rely on the US anyway.


Swedish griphen e/d variants use an American engine. Possibly other avionics idk. So those will be grounded after few months into a conflict.

I expect a crash program to reengineer them has already started if only unofficially.


Do you have any data to back this claim up? The Grippen looks awful.


If you look at the raw specs maybe. Grippen has a specific role which is starting and landing anywhere and being easy to support, both in manpower and materials. You can land a Grippen on any short stretch of paved ground, get it rearmed and ready to fly again in half an hour with 5 people. Whereas higher spec american jets like the F16 need very long, clean and straight runways, lots of support infrastructure, lots of personnel and have a long turnaround time. With the likes of F35 and F22 this is even worse.


Also, I believe reading raw plane specs these days is more like counting CPU GHz. It does not really matter anymore.

What matters these days is the cost of buying/flying/maintenance, software platform and what missiles they can launch.

Gripen has modular upgradable software, and supports modern Europe-made missiles such as Taurus and Meteor.


As other poster said, Gripen is perfect for a defensive role as a missile launch platform. It's not supposed to go 1:1 with F-35:s, but to counter the Russian air capability - and mostly in a defensive role. F-35:s were really great when they came with larger techno-military-political ecosystem but now the trust in that ecosystem is shattered.


The grippen looks amazing what are you talking about? Are we looking at the same plane? The high off boresight capability and meteor are top of class.


It is single engine and it is an ugly looking plane. The F22 looks like a spaceship compared to it in terms of looks and capabilities.

For the same reason I consider the F35 a failure.


Who cares if it’s ugly. Your priorities are mind boggling. You doubling down on that argument is comical.


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