The agenda that Trump advanced during campaigns was not "cut ourselves off from the rest of the world". Do his supporters really want this? What's the rationale he advances for this stance and the tarrifs?
What would a president who was beholden to Russians do once elected? I mean -- what's the point of provoking Canada, of all countries? Canada as the 51st US state would be the new most populous state and would cause a huge change in US politics. Not to mention it could only arrive through conquest. So why even propose it if not merely to cause a rift?
That's like asking whether a child wants the sugar crash that will come after eating the candy bar. They're not able to see that far ahead. They'll only "get it" when their lives have been made significantly harder, and even then it's not likely they'll be able to attribute their misery to the administration's policies--they could very easily be convinced to blame some minority group or foreign nation.
After many long discussions, I can only conclude it less about the values of the supporters and more about their psychology.
His supporters want whatever he wants, as long as it means that the right people get bullied. There's not much deeper thought than that.
It's very sad to see people that I respected debase their own principles so that they can remain proud Trump supporters. Their identity appears tied to the decision, and I know only one person who had the principles to to respond to any of Trump's actions with "OK these people actually have no clue what they are doing." (Which was in response to their treatment of Zelensky in the Oval Office).
>His supporters want whatever he wants, as long as it means that the right people get bullied.
Yeah, pretty much. Everyone in this thread should be able to craft a Trump line that's easily digestible by his base on this point by now. In this specific case it's "I don't want to give US weapons to anyone who won't act in our (my) national interest on every issue." Once you empower him to decide what is or is not in the US national interest, there's not much you need in the way of convincing. It's only when his policies start hurting his voters individually that they'll maybe start questioning whether what Trump claims is American national interest is actually in their own interest or not.
Not sure about Canada, but Trump's actions will make a lot more sense if you consider that to American rightists, American leftists are a much bigger enemy than Russians. I think the same is true in the opposite direction. These 2 groups can't stand each other and often sabotage the other's efforts. We can put that aside and ask what's best for the world or America, but as long as there is this hatred between the parties in the US, both sides will act primarily against the other.
> to American rightists, American leftists are a much bigger enemy than Russians.
This reminds me of France in the Second World War. My (questionable) understanding is that they were more worried about the enemies at home than the ones across the border.
The supporters are just a rabble bought into a cult of personality. If they know what they think, it doesn’t matter.
The point of all of this is the chaos and destruction of trust in the system. A concept in the early stages of the Russian revolution was that the stage had to be set for a “spark” to light the tinder of the proletariat. Here the Russians had RT, probably fed talking points and material to talk radio and podcast people. Had honeypots seducing strategic politicans and special interests (See Maria Butina and the NRA). Obviously wields influence over Trump.
Once that tinder has been set, the sparks some in the chaos. You have the religious weirdos who think dinosaurs are fake, Elon who believes he’s the protagonist in a sci-fi fantasy, some war-hawks pushing the Artic Dominance thing, and whatever fuckery the gang of oligarchs like Theil, etc have in mind.
The agenda was to leave Ukraine and to have Europe pay for its own defence which is what’s happening here. Nothing more, nothing less. Don’t let yourself get manipulated by Reddit-tier arguments.
The agenda is to abandon US allies and let Russia expand however it wants, because that's what Putin wants. Putin wants to erase the Ukrainian cultural identity, which is what Russia has tried to do for centuries.
What would a president who was beholden to Russians do once elected? I mean -- what's the point of provoking Canada, of all countries? Canada as the 51st US state would be the new most populous state and would cause a huge change in US politics. Not to mention it could only arrive through conquest. So why even propose it if not merely to cause a rift?