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Germany spent 1 trillion euros on renewable energy, has the most expensive electricity in the EU and emits much more than nuclear France. Can we just move on and accept that renewables do not work at larger scales?


Renewables are the cheapest source of power and can be scaled up significantly faster than nuclear, while having none of the risks.

Power in Germany is expensive mostly due to gas and lack of storage capacity. Check back in four years when the storage capacity has gone up tenfold.


First they aren't, which is why Germany and other countries need to provide massive subsidies to producers. Also a source of energy that produces only when wind blows is quite useless, even if it's free. Your source of energy should produce when you have the need for it.

And storage is typically something thay doesn't scale, which is why Germany needs coal or gas to complement renewables. Polluting the rest of Europe while doing so.

Even the term of "renewables" is untrue, given the relatively short lifespan of most windfarms and solar panels. After 25 years you have to trash them, with no real way to recycle it.


Germany spent a lot on renewables but next to nothing on actual grid infrastructure and storage. Energy prices depend on the most expensive option in the mix at any given time. In Germany that means energy prices are dictated by the gas price. No amount of renewables helps with that unless you can eliminate gas entirely.


Because storage and grid infrastructure are immensely expensive and don't scale. Storage alone has negative returns above a certain capacity. You ask a country to rebuild its whole electrical infrastructure. It's a massive waste of capital.

Grid infrastructure requirements alone likely negates any ecological benefits given the amount of copper needed and the abysmal ecological conditions of copper mining.


You're misattributing the issues entirely. The issues right now are caused by the markets not reflecting reality.

If Germany were to split its electrical grid into two (north and south), as economists and the EU demand, things would be clearer.

The northern grid would produce more renewable energy than is required in total (hovering between 120-300% production vs usage). It'd have electricity prices around 10-15ct/kWh

The southern grid would have more pollution than even poland, as it's primarily fed with lignite, and would end up with an electricity price above 90ct/kWh.

The issues in Germany are not caused by technical or economical challenges, but by political ones. The southern states have passed laws to restrict renewables and limit construction of new power lines to gain favors with conservative NIMBYs and newage NIMBYs.


None of you provided any sources to actual research, so I don't know what to believe.




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