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Looks pretty similar to what I'd expect to a regular European town.

What are you comparing it to that you see such a drastic difference?



Having travelled quite a bit in europe, I disagree. There are european towns with train stations that look similar clean. But not at all everywhere.

Eastern europe in general less. Norther europe more.

Western and southern europe is mixed. Graffiti I have seen quite a bit, but broken glass or other types of vandalism are sadly common, too.


Central European here (Poland). The bizarre and amazing thing is the change that's been happening in the region over the last 20 years or so: the large cities have become very clean.

So, what you wrote stands true for smaller places, but large cities are now very clean. Not quite Japan-level, but close, and certainly much cleaner than anything in western Europe.


Have you been to Japan? I can't say that Krakow made an impression on me of being "close" to Tokyo in cleanliness TBH.


Yes, in fact I live in Japan right now. Warsaw (especially the center) is quite close. Certainly much closer than most cities in western Europe.


Yeah, true. I know that phenomen. And it is true in eastern germany as well.

Dresden for example has always working elevators and the stations are looked after regulary.

The small towns? It can take weeks, before a broken elevator is fixed, or a public toilet reopened. (If there is one at all in the first place) Until then you have to step over pee and shit.


Berlin is filthy and seems to have only gotten more so in recent decades.


> Looks pretty similar to what I'd expect to a regular European town.

Europe is not one country, and even within the same country, there may be big differences between regions, and within the city itself. Naples and Geneva for example are like polar opposites.

Japan is very uniform by comparison, and about as clean and well maintained as the best European cities, I'd say the US is about average by European standards, but with less variation. The general, very rough idea with Europe is that the further north you go, the cleaner it is.


I’ve been on a few business and pleasure trips to France, Italy and Spain was struck by the volume of graffiti.

Way more than in NYC or Boston today, it reminded me of NYC when I was a kid in the 80s.


Same in Germany. Graffiti everywhere; walls, buildings, fences, signs, historic monuments. It's awful and I don't know why they can't manage to do anything about it, but it also seems like no one cares about it as a problem to begin with. To me, such an individual invasion of the public space seems like a mockery of the common trust and the notion that the Europeans (and the Germans especially) have some sort of communal responsibility.


Things are actually open. In Switzerland everything closes. Japan is notable because there’ll be people everywhere and things will still be clean. Compare football games as example.


> In Switzerland everything closes

Sure, because there are worker rights and we do not keep people working at night unless there's a reason.

> Japan is notable because there’ll be people everywhere and things will still be clean

What do you mean people will be everywhere? There are people as well in regular European towns and it's clean as well.


I know this a difficult case to win, but I'd always prefer night shifts and get annoyed when my government decides it's not 'the right thing to do'.

Same for Sunday Closures. What's so special about Sunday apart from old religious concerns?


It's for workers' rights. Even ole' John Calvin (who probably started it in Switzerland) wanted Sunday as a day off because it protected workers rights against overwork, not because he saw it as mandated by the Bible.


Hi, Swiss person here. This does not address why it should be Sunday for everyone. Nobody's saying you should work 7 days a week. We could have different off days for different people.


It’s not that Sunday is special pet day, just that they don’t want employers working the disadvantaged 7 days a week with no breaks.


> […] working the disadvantaged 7 days a week with no breaks.

In countries with a high development index, the employment law usually prohibits 7 day long working weeks, and there is a provision of at least one day off (granted, since employment laws vary across jurisdictions, there is no universal rule).

The situation is different for small businesses and self-employed as they are the masters of their own fate (so to speak), e.g. if a cafe owner decides to run the cafe 7 days a week and work there in person themselves, that is their choice.


As a student - that fucked me over, as working Saturday and Sunday in stores would be the easiest way to earn money on side. :P

And then govt decided to stop for brownie points with church.


> And then govt decided to stop for brownie points with church.

Sundays off are about workers rights, little to do with religion.

And you can still work on Sunday - in businesses that are allowed to be open (gastro, petrol stations, certain shops).


>> Sundays off are about workers rights, little to do with religion.

Why did they all happen to pick Sunday?


Last day of the week?

Weekend is only two days long, so it's not like you have a lot of options.


To take it further... why is Sunday the last day of the week in all of those countries?

(Of course, my point is, Sunday is the day off, the last day of the week, and the "core" of the weekend, exactly because of the dominant religion.)


> because there are worker rights

That's a ridiculous answer. People work at night in Japan because there is a market for that.


I disagree with the implication that Swiss/European people are morally superior to those in other parts of the world and their choices are de-facto better than those being made elsewhere. Seems like a common, ignorant and bigoted stance.


Cleanliness and a general sense of respect for the public spaces IS de-facto better than trash everywhere and a society where everyone only cares for number one. If it's offensive to you, your moral compass is wrong.


> Sure, because there are worker rights and we do not keep people working at night unless there's a reason.

Part of this is low wages, but the population density also means you can easily find people who'll work the night shift. Or sometimes the store owner does it.

But no, they aren't like Europeans who think workers should have the right to work five hours a year.


"Five hours a year" is a gross thing to say. Surely we should emulate the Japanese, where death by overwork is a joked about phenomenon


Don't get all your news from 2000s stereotypes. There was a fair amount of reform for that in the last decade.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEJPA065NRUG

China is probably the better example for long work hours right now.


> death by overwork

Stop reading tabloids


Hmmm the few people that clean up at Japanese football games don't actually represent everyone. Many leave drinks containers behind or bento boxes that they brought with them, and often you are given bags of goodies (not actually that exciting, I got a branded folder of the team, and a salad dressing one time) which end up being 'forgotten'. Whilst yes some fans do keep it very tidy, as with many things in Japan, there is an idolised view that isn't based on reality.


Not football, and i've only been to one baseball game in Tokyo, but it was crazy , after the game everyone spent time to clean up their area - it was like a peer pressure thing almost & didn't seem like just a just a few people but the entire stadium for the most part


Yes, it’s not fully tidy but I think comparing a top tier derby in either nation is nonetheless instructive.


Don't bother :) There are other examples, but the US/HN audience is particularly fascinated with Japan in a "if you have to pick one" kind of way. Perhaps also because it's an old adversary.

It's much better than 0 outside benchmarking, so I've learned to just let these threads roll on.




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