If you're on HN, you obviously want an OpenWRT router or better but most people are probably better off with equipment managed by their provider so they have someone to whom they can complain about wifi issues, etc.
Also, funny to see Bogleheads forum as source for tech advice. It comes up times and again in many forums that they are populated largely by computer janitors.
> most people are probably better off with equipment managed by their provider so they have someone to whom they can complain about wifi issues, etc
I strongly disagree. The degree of troubleshooting ability this grants the often almost useless tech support at major providers is not sufficient to justify the many downsides and resulting risks.
There have been numerous documented cases involving ISPs configuring these devices in horrifically insecure ways, and that hardly seems to justify the ability to remotely reboot the device and look at basic troubleshooting stats.
It’s 2024, and I think it’s far more important to continue pushing tech literacy than allow such a critical aspect of modern life to be controlled by demonstrably hostile entities for dubious benefits.
How are non technical people, like our parents, ... going to install their own router? And then they might have to manage it, like a manual update or asjustment now and then or whatever.
Most people simply don’t have the knowledge.
It would be like everyone buying car parts themselves and repairing their own cars when they break…
> How are non technical people, like our parents, ... going to install their own router? And then they might have to manage it, like a manual update or asjustment now and then or whatever.
Buy an eero, plug it in, use the phone app for initial setup (like setting wifi password, nothing "technical"), and then use it while doing no maintenance because settings don't need to change and software auto-updates.
> It would be like everyone buying car parts themselves and repairing their own cars when they break…
Yes, it would be like people replacing windshield wipers and topping off their own oil: You could hire it out, but it's a waste of money to do so.
> How are non technical people, like our parents, ... going to install their own router?
The way they already are doing this. You’re presenting this as if it’s some mythical impossible thing, but there’s usually someone in the household who can get these device set up, and an increasing amount of extremely accessible content online to help people who are willing to spend a few minutes learning.
A modern router will update itself, and after the initial configuration process is almost maintenance-free with the exception of the occasional reboot and/or checking of cables, both of which are still required if the ISP owns the router.
Furthermore, modern routers generally have extremely simplified setup processes, and minimal knowledge is necessary.
With some limited guidance, all of the non-technical parental figures in my family have managed this without major issues, and I’ll happily take a few questions every 6-12 months if it means they can avoid trying to mitigate the class of other issues inherent to delegating this to the ISP.
> It would be like everyone buying car parts themselves and repairing their own cars when they break…
This is not an effective analogy. The degree of skill required and the actual steps involved in managing one’s router look absolutely nothing like becoming an at-home mechanic.
99% of router issues are solved by turning it off and on again (If only cars were so simple). The remaining issues are often beyond the purview of the ISP anyway, leaving one to wonder what actual benefit there is in granting administrative access to entities that have repeatedly proven they do not have their user’s best interests in mind.
> And then they might have to manage it, like a manual update or asjustment now and then or whatever
No modern router should require manual updates. Using the ISP’s router does not guarantee automatic updates or properly/securely managed devices either.
And again, this is where I’d rather get a call from my dad very occasionally asking about some setting than find out later that their network has been pwned because the ISP router left a default admin credential in place that is now being widely exploited (true story).
The hurdles you’re erecting do not represent the actuality of the problem space, and I think it’s more important to push a baseline level of tech literacy vs. trying to wash our hands of the issue, which I think is actively harmful because many ISPs have proven they are often not an improvement over even poorly self-managed options.
I agree. I'm in the fortunate situation where I'm using an ISP-provided router but have admin access. There really wasn't any config that I needed to change but changed the DNS server (as ISP ones are a common point of failure) and not much else. Plus I use another mesh router behind it anyway (as well as DNS-over-https in my browser).
Also, funny to see Bogleheads forum as source for tech advice. It comes up times and again in many forums that they are populated largely by computer janitors.