Selling underpowered toys at eye-popping prices has been Teenage Engineering's modus-operandi since the beginning. After the OP-1 price hike (and subsequent re-release at an even higher price), I don't think their target audience cares past this point. You either buy TE stuff for the brand recognition or you own a bunch of Behringer gear because you're poor.
I retract my previous statement. Indeed, toys are not the only expensive stuff they have for sale.
Hey look down there! The computer-1 case is on sale for $149, down from $249. How much profit you still think they're making, considering it's a DIY kit of bendable sheet metal?
SnazzyLabs bought their case a few years ago for a hackintosh project and did not review it favorably.
They send you a bunch of flat panels of metal you have to bend into shape yourself, and are supposedly very flimsy and can be easily bent even once the whole thing is assembled. They didn't even punch out the screw holes so you have to bore your own holes and screw through them manually. The USB-C port on the front uses a 3.0 header instead of 3.1. And it can't even fit a small formfactor GPU.
I bought that case and it’s not great quality and does not look as good as the picture. Also it is flat pack so you have to bend all the pieces and the toggle switch feels terrible. So definitely overpriced for what you get.
I didn't buy the case so I can't comment on quality. Just that asking $150 for a mini-ITX case is in the ballpark for what I expect to pay. Most small-batch ITX cases are also flat pack. All the dan cases, formD T1, among others.
Yes. But the assembly experience and the wobbliness of the case are worse than a $70 mini-ITX options. I think even $70 would be half brand tax. As the quality to my mind puts this case among the cheapest of the cheapest.
What would you like me to think about? Look at the price of mini-ITX cases. 150 is in the ballpark. I made no claims about this cases quality only that it is priced around the same price as other mini-ITX cases.
People loooove to complain about TE pricing. OP-Z is $499, find me anything else that can sequence sound, video and DMX (on the go) like OP-Z can, there are exactly zero others. OP-1 for portable synths.... are people pulling a Deluge out on a flight? I've seen people compose a whole set with a OP-1, over 30 minutes, with nothing else... good luck doing that on a MC-101.
I own a Pocket Operator, my head's not in the sand about their cheaper offerings. The Pocket Operators are cheap toys though, you cannot tell me with a straight face that it's about to prop up your next EP. It's a mass-produced calculator PCB they forgot to make a case for, and sell at insane markup.
The same goes for the KO and indeed, the OP-Z. The OP-Z doesn't even have a screen, it has no business costing $499 for being a bunch of buttons with a USB-C plug.
> find me anything else that can sequence sound, video and DMX (on the go) like OP-Z can
How about the mandatory paired device it requires to sequence everything? That iPhone/iPad is certainly capable of doing that itself, alongside multiple things the OP-Z can't. Nevermind how far you'd get with a $300 laptop and $200 DAW.
You can't memorize how to use an OP-Z.......?? That aside, what company is making an OP-Z alternative?
What company is making pocket operator alternative? What company is making an OP-1 alternative...?
Right, that's what I thought.
On your laptop point, I'm going to be doing a show this weekend, OP-Z, OP-1, 170 and 400. I don't even know HOW I would do that without TE gear, $50k worth of Eurorack?
They've existed for almost 4 decades now under a market labelled "MPCs and MIDI controllers". To name a few common alternatives, you have the Digitakt and Octatrack, a cheap TASCAM and a laptop, a 4-track cassette recorder, the Akai grooveboxes, the Electribe series, the recent Novation Circuit line... the list goes on. People have been making beats on battery-power long before the iPhone and Garageband, if that's news to anyone.
> I don't even know HOW I would do that without TE gear, $50k worth of Eurorack?
A quad-core laptop running Reason and VCV Rack would do just as well, but I won't spoil your hardware fun. Who can deny how sweet TE's analog DCO sounds?
Right, anyway. Can you spec for spec find me alternatives for the TE gear I mentioned? Same form function, similar software, interoperable within its ecosystem. Just name the TE model and then the brand and model alternative that is basically the same, and then how they work together in terms of their sync clocks.
For example:
OP-Z, you could buy X device, it has all the same features, is about the same price, same size, battery etc.
OP-Z: iPhone or iPad, it has all the same features, is about the same price, same size as you would have carried, same battery, whatever
OP-1: Literally just about anything. It is a 4 channel digital recorder. You have an iPhone with USB-class compliant audio, you can do multichannel recording. Use a guitar, some iOS plugins and a $40 DAC. If you're going to complain about buttons, go blow your cash on a midi controller (it will still come up cheaper than ANY OF THE OP-1 MODELS!)
Pocket Operator: God, please grant me reprieve from finite suffering. There is no hope for humanity if we are looking for "alternatives" to grooveboxes with kilobyte-sized memory. What do I say? Fairlight CMI? Do I send a picture of the Mellotron as a joke? The Ti-84 graphing calculator? Heaven forbid... the Akai Rhythm Wolf. Is there a future for us yet if iPad children would rather pay college-tuition prices for Fischer-Price hardware that can do what their iPad does already?
You'll never please everyone, which is why snake oil still finds customers in the 21st century.
You have an audience eager for genuine alternative recommendations - why not use it? Instead you've spent a lot of words and mock despair not providing any answer to GP, when we want to hear what technologies you would suggest instead.
You can't take someone's OP-Z out of their hands and replace it with an iPhone and expect them to be able to continue, unless you're also recommending a specific iPhone DAW/sequencer with comparable functionality and usability? People would be very keen to hear which ones you like!
And replacing a Pocket Operator's functionality with a Ti-84? If the future of hope for humanity depends on everyone seeing that a Ti-84 is an obviously fully capable substitute for a Pocket Operator, should I be worried that I don't see it (it doesn't even have the right ports, for one thing)?
You seem to have a lot of conviction in your position, we'd love to see some of the substance behind it!
Not OP and this is a week old thread, but I own multiple OP-Zs, OP-1f, and PO-133. Been using OP-Z since release. Big fan of their gear but not the build quality.
Here is what possibly could work:
OP-1f: a tough one to replace but possibly an iPhone + AUM app for multitrack recording and file management + any of the daws such as garageband for recording
Synths / drums apps - probably any, also Koala sampler is pretty solid.
Effects and sequencers would be hard to replicate though, might need an iPad for that (and there you can just use a Samplr app for instance)
Will need a separate audio interface and maybe a microphone though.
OP-Z: an even tougher task, sequencer-wise I’m not sure what’s out there right now, there used to be Modstep, or can try Fugue machine with audiobus
DMX and visuals would be very tricky to do, but can try making a workaround with OSC and Max maybe??
PO-133: probably Koala sampler or Samplr app
The problem with phone apps is that if developer gives up or it’s taken down from app store then you’re SOL. The upside of TE hardware stuff is that it always works (unless some hardware breaks and you need ti look up replacement / repairs)
Honestly, while I agree there's a massive price discrepancy, I don't know that I even see Behringer as the "lower end" option anymore. The lowest end is a laptop and pirated VSTs. Behringer pedals? Yeah, those are because you're poor (or just don't care, I guess?) but synths? The K2 is better built than the MS20 mini, the Wasp reissue doesn't have a good equivilent I know of, and their 303 clone isn't any better or worse than the other similarly priced 303 options - and it's easily hackable.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I still think Behringer as a company is doing bad things to the music land scape and that they've done some pretty horrendous IP theft and racist stuff, but I don't think "because you're poor" is right either.
To the point though, yeah, no, TE absolutely won't get a black eye for this: Nobody cares, and hardly anyone but tech bros even know. It's no worse than their wooden choir thing.
why not? they clearly wanted to exploit AI hype in order to turn a profit, even if they did so indirectly. Why shouldn't that speak to their motives and trustworthiness?
if Apple started churning out guns, landmines, snakeoil, cancer cures, NFTs, and magic-AIs their reputation would falter.
Teenage Engineering isn't making guns, landmines, NFTs, or magic AI. Maybe I'm just not a deep thinker like you so I'm not making the connection but in my mind a company paid Teenage Engineering to design some hardware; Teenage Engineering designed the hardware. That is all there is to it. They made no promises about the functionality because that wasn't their job because it wasn't their product.
Apple might be able to get away with all that, their reality distortion field is unmatched, but I agree that teenage engineering might actually take a reputation hit if they are too liberal with their outsourcing.
Personally, the Vision Pro wasn’t really my cup of tea but I will be standing in line on day one at my local Apple Store for the Landmine Pro.
I highly doubt that. TE has a strong reputation and their involvement in another company's product outside of their normal business won't impact their sales regardless of whether or not R1 is a flop or a ruse.
