Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Instead of banning game boys with radios, maybe fix the swiss cheese cars.


And hold the manufactures selling negligent product designs to the public responsible. They won't improve until it's more expensive to sell crap.


I suspect it does affect the manufacturers indirectly: if you make an insecure car (ahem, Hyundai/Kia), theft rates and insurance premiums rise. That in turn means that residuals (resale values) go down which affects the profitability of leases and reduces demand for new cars, at least until the flaws are fixed.


I don't think most people check stuff like that when buying a used car. They just go for the one that has the features they like. Most people don't even price out insurance until after they buy, which means it won't affect resale.

The Kia one maybe just because it is so well known, but in most cases it probably has no effect at all.


Really? Checking the insurance cost and taxation is the first thing you do here in Netherlands. For used cars you can fill in the license plate and get direct information.


Right, but they have a lobby, so that will actually be met with resistance. This approach was chosen as it's a quick way to appear that you're doing something to combat car theft without actually meeting a lot of political resistance.


Instead of fixing swiss cheese cars, maybe try catching and punishing the criminals. Just because i hold my phone in my hand and not in a locked safe doesn't mean you can take it.


How about we do both? No reason we cannot punish criminals while also holding lazy manufacturers to account.


My proposed solution, manufacturers have to stop bring lazy and install it and it solves the criminal problem: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4ZYOBzEEs


>No reason we cannot punish criminals while also holding lazy manufacturers to account.

I think you're talking about the same thing.


Because this is not an easy crime to catch or punish, these cars are so easy to steal a layman can do it in minutes without making much noise, take it to a chop shop, and be off with some money in no time.

Getting better at identifying and shutting down these chop shops is a good idea obviously, but that's also hard. On the other hand, forcing companies who didn't give a shit about security for years to pay for retrofitting the shitty cars they put out is actually a lot easier.


Sounds like we need more surveillance, facial recognition, and AI behavior and activity tracking around cities then

/s


Virginia bans radar detectors, which is wild.

You're not even emitting radio -- you're detecting it when it's being shot at you, and that's illegal?!


Radar detectors usually do emit some radio as a byproduct of how the receiver works. Plus it lets the radar detector companies sell radar detector dectors to the cops. And upgraded radar detectors to the chronic speeders that can detect the dectector detectors. Etc.


AFAIK, it’s not about emissions or reception, it’s about increasing the LEO coffers via traffic fines.

It may be described as a signals concern but that’s simply window dressing.


As a Hyundai owner, TTTHHHIIISSS!


Was going to mention Hyundai/Kia.

(Background: many pre-2023 or so Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis models have a catastrophic security flaw that allows thieves to open, start, and drive affected vehicles without needing any access to the key fob at all. This is far worse than a signal cloning or relay attack and has resulted in skyrocketing theft rates and spiralling insurance costs in many countries…)


That catastrophic security flaw? That the US Gov't didn't require immobilizers on cars until way too late.

Funnily enough, Canada DID require immobilizers, so I think they're not subject to the same BS my car is subject to.


Nothing to do with immobilizers: that was a separate issue that was apparently fixed in 2021.

It’s a wireless attack that affects late model cars with proximity-based keyfobs (ie: ones that do not require a button to be pressed on the fob for the car to detect it), including 2022 and 2023 models such as the Ioniq 5 EV:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5/comments/17lksic/increase_in...

All countries seem to be affected, not just US models.


I guarantee you that issue was not fixed for everyone in 2021, looking at my car without a software update. :)


Yeah, fixed in new cars from 2021 onwards I mean.


Ah, I’m sorry! I understand now!


Instead of putting money towards educating great cybersecurity professionals to overcome the bad actors, some folks want to get one tool banned. By the time ban comes in effect, I bet that there will be even more nifty tools than Flipper Zero.

The folks who suggested or agreed on this ban ignored how tech moves faster than law creation and enforcement.


I believe this was fixed. Decades ago. The Flipper Zero can't be used on a car made in the past couple decades.


Depends entirely on the particular attack and the particular implementation. Even rolling code systems have vulnerabilities (e.g. relay attacks), they're just harder to attack.


Yup, someone stole teslas by relaying the key inside the house


Relay attacks can be defeated by precisely measuring the latency between the car and the fob/key device. Apparently relay attacks on Teslas are very difficult now days for this reason.


Radio hobbyists don't have the extensive lobby buying legislators like car manufacturers do.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: