And an empty plate is not a plate, also by definition? Okay, sure.

Ah I suppose if you see an "empty pile" as still a vessel with nothing on/in it, your point stands.

But a plate is its own thing, in addition to what goes on it. A "full plate" is full of what? And a full plate is the plate plus whatever is on it, not just the stuff on it.

I think of a "pile" of stuff as being it's own thing, that being the pile itself. An empty pile is the absence of the thing.

That was my interpretation, but I see what you meant. :)

Hmm, I think that's how normal people approach the question (implicitly), and that might be how they think zero is not an even number.

At least this would explain their reasoning in terms I can understand.

well that's odd