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Which costs a lot of money. Which is also needed to build new ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_renaissance

"Since about 2001 the term nuclear renaissance has been used to refer to a possible nuclear power industry revival, driven by rising fossil fuel prices and new concerns about meeting greenhouse gas emission limits."

Just like today.

Since 2001 and now, mostly nothing happened which could be seen as an "nuclear renaissance" in France. Other than the EPR having extreme cost increases and extreme construction times.

Why should the "nuclear renaissance" happen, this time? Given that the situation is only worse: engineers are aging, plants are aging, current nuclear technology/companies are not delivering, money is tight, ...



> Why should the "nuclear renaissance" happen, this time?

Dunno...maybe because, as the article you cite mentions, the term was used in 2001 to refer to a hypothetical.

" ... a nuclear renaissance is possible ... "

So there was no "that time". Whereas "this time" it is not some hypothetical that could happen, but officially declared government policy.

Macron presents France’s long-term ‘nuclear-heavy’ energy plan

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/macron-presents...

Macron announces ‘nuclear renaissance’ — and papers over past mishaps

https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-papers-nucle...

Macron pushes 'French nuclear renaissance'

https://www.dw.com/en/macron-calls-for-french-nuclear-renais...

Did I write "declared" government policy? My bad: declared and enacted government policy:

French Parliament passes law to accelerate construction of new nuclear reactors

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2023/05/17/french-...

French parliament votes nuclear plan with large majority

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-parliament-votes...

Note the "large majority". To be precise it was "approved with 402 votes in favour and 130 against." That's a whopping 75% of the vote. Doesn't seem particularly controversial.

France's Assemblée Nationale adopts 'nuclear acceleration' bill on first reading

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/03/21/france-s...

So that's what's different. Hypothetical possibility vs. declared and enacted government policy.

You're welcome.


It's an all-government show now. EDF had earlier this year 64.5 Billion Euro debt. It sells electricity to the consumer, operates the grid, operates the power plants, build the power plants. Their mismanagement is amplified by the lack of competition. It hides the large losses of the electricity sector. Now they also pay for the "favor" to construct a nuclear power plant in the UK, where they carry the rising losses, which the Chinese now are refusing to pay. They would need to increase the electricity price to be profitable, but that's impossible, just in case the politicians want to be reelected -> debt goes to the taxpayer. I wonder how the finance all this debt? French debt is now at > 3000 billion Euro. 115 % debt/gdp.

It's a mostly state owned monopoly on electricity. It's not a market-oriented energy landscape at all. Energy socialism.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/opinion/...

> declared and enacted government policy

Delivery is the problem. See the main tasks of a) keeping the aging and outdated reactors online, b) building new plants, c) developing new types of plants, d) innovating and e) financing the whole show with government money.

They are so desperate, such that EDF is still cooperating with Rosatom/Russia...


I love it how you don’t even bat an eyelid when one of your outlandish claims turns out to be made up out of thin air…and just move on to the next one.

A wonderful Gish Gallop..


I love how you go on, having exposed that you even don't know the difference between a powerplant and a reactor. All the while you claim others to be 'comically incorrect'. You should really tone down and don't say that anti-nuclear people are clueless, while you are yourself demonstrating a lot of ignorance.


Good grief.

In common usage, the two terms are sometimes used interchangeably, particularly in Germany where plants often consist of a single reactor. But yeah, that bit of terminological sloppiness is a total game changer...about what exactly?

Pretty much all your claims are, in fact, comically incorrect:

1. nuclear is too expensive.

It is not. It is clearly and obviously cheaper than renewables. See France v. Germany electricity prices.

Taking the most expensive outlier in cost and claiming that to be the norm is comically incorrect. Well, if you assume an honest mistake, which admittedly is difficult with that level of wrong. So OK: not comically incorrect, just plain old dishonest.

2. nuclear is unsafe

It is not. It is either among the safest or the safest form of energy production we have.

3. nuclear takes too long

It does not. Average time to build is 7.5 years, consistently. France converted their electricity production to nuclear in 20 years, Germany hasn't managed half of that in 20 years with renewables.

Again, focusing on a few outliers that take a very long time and claiming that to be the norm is comically incorrect. Or just dishonest see above.

4. nuclear is on the way out

There is a massive expansion going on. It was on the way out a few years back, but the catastrophe that is the German Energiewende made non-ideologically captured countries realize they need reliable grid-level supply. Russian gas backup isn't it.

But you obviously know better than those countries as to what they are actually doing.

Again, either comically incorrect or dishonest.

5. nuclear waste storage is unsolved

Do tell the countries that have built long-term storage that they haven't. And tell the facilities that are doing the intermediate storage just fine that it isn't working.

This one I wouldn't classify as just plain old incorrect, not comically so, as it is somewhat tricky to navigate through all the misinformation and find out what's going on.


> particularly in Germany where plants often consist of a single reactor

We were arguing about nuclear power in Japan. In 2011 Fukushima had one of the largest plants in the world, with six reactors. Many powerplants in Japan had more than one reactor. But you did not know that?

You also never seemed to have heard of the events at the other reactors, like the four ones in Daini.

Your list reads like that one of a fanboy, it has very little to do with reality.


> We were arguing about nuclear power in Japan.

Incorrect. The article was about UK, this subthread was all about France.

> Your list reads like that one of a fanboy,

It reads like a "fanboy" to you.

"I know you're a pessimist if you think I am an optimist"

Might be time to re-examine your biases and bring them into alignment with reality, because...

> it has very little to do with reality.

Incorrect. Everything in my list is true, and verifiably so. Unlike the vast majority of the stuff you've spouted so far.

If you think that actual reality reads like "a fanboy", then congratulations!

-> You have just discovered why it is logical and rational to be positive about nuclear power <-

You are very welcome!




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