Yeah and the person with kids being allowed outside is the one living in a bubble in USA. And the people outside of his bubble do get really outraged over the idea that 7 years old could be outside without parent.

Perhaps, but that is a seperate debate.

Arguably everyone has always been in the bubble of our own life. OP had an intention, using the term. He's not talking about stereotypes or extremes. He's talking about the normal life of of most parents reading hn. Even if not, he just gave an example from his life.. demonstrating why he thinks that screens>suburban planning as factors.

Then in commeth the recycled meme version of this conversation. Memes of 7-year-olds taking their dirt bikes to the hardware store. Reddit class politics. Second hand TED arguments about parents not letting kids be free.

I take all the points, but a whole variety of social conditions play.. now and in the past. Also coevolving parenting culture. Also suburban planning, the actual topic of the article.

There's nothing unreasonable about OP's point. That the main factor is screens. It's arguable, and it would be interesting & reasonable to argue a contrary point too. Good faith would be to assume that he/she is someone up to date with the meme version.. as most of us are.

Instead, he gets a snarky, internet-bubble suggestion that parental reticence is at the heart. It is, quite honestly, typically internet.

A 15-year-old analysis, that "went TED" 10 years ago. Went viral 5 years ago.. and jammed into this thread.

This is in fact, a good demonstration of how digital culture prevails. It is aloof from normal life. Allowing children freedom is one thing. Getting them to exercise it, in practice, is the primary challenge most parents see and face. They don't want to go explore. Run wild with their friends. They want screen time. You have to force the little bastard outside

Anyway.. from here the word bubble is the conversation.. and since someone mentioned the word suburb.. Reddit class politics.

We really need to do better on this. These conversations are making us dumber, not smarter.

>> people outside of his bubble do get really outraged over the idea that 7 years old could be outside without parent.

> Perhaps, but that is a seperate debate.

Barely, like how a noose and a neck aren't the same thing. But they both play a critical part in the life-altering catastrophe.

Lots of people handwaving about "bubbles" and making vast generalizations about massive populations. Is there any objective data to back these claims up?

For what it's worth, I wouldn't claim either of the sides in this conversation are the norm; I know plenty of people who will let their kids run around, and plenty of people who wouldn't.

Objective in what way? What claim are you rejecting?

Anyway.. if you want to have a conversation about childhood, parenting, suburbs.. quantifications and statistics (assuming that is what you're looking for) are allowed.. but the conversation will be fundamentally subjective.

There's no other way, that isn't meaningless, to have this conversation.

If you want to narrow down, to a specific point that can actually be settled in such a way.. that's great. A great point in the conversation. Not the conversation itself.

There is no way to quantify or settle this debate.. with published social studies. The complex relationship between parental culture, modern childhood, screens, neighborhoods... There is no reason to think this will be modeled out in a comprehensive,"objective" way.

You can make a data centered argument, that is fine. It is not possible to do this honestly, well being both broad and tight.

Iregardless, OP's point stands. "It's the screens."

Trying to isolate kid culture, school culture, parents, parenting.. it can't be done. It's a complex. It is now a complex operating in a highly computerized world. The way to think of it is as one major aggravating factor.. that changing material culture.. and how it is affecting the complex that is parenting-childhood-culture. Every element of that complex is co-evolving tightly interrelated.

If you want to think of this objectively (in a pragmatist sense), which outside (the complex) change is the primary driver. Suburban design, or screens.. a computerization of culture.