this is going to be something of a disaster :) People travel together and like to sit next to each other, it's just going to be so confusing for some parties, and so many people are going to try to cheat, mayhem.
planes should switch to pods, then we get loaded in bulk. Everybody gets strapped in before the plane even gets there, then load us all up with a forklift!
Couples and families get enough advantages in life. As someone who is usually a single traveler with just a carry-on who prefers the window seat, this sounds awesome. Kinda joking, kinda not. ;)
I do imagine this will cause some chaos in reality. What might be better is if flight attendants carries cattle prods to punish the all the boobs who don't find their seat and stow their carryon in a timely manner. Way too many flyers behave like no one else's time is important.
On the other hand, maybe carry-on items shouldn't be allowed except for personal items. That way, boarding takes far less time because no one has to stow away anything.
> On the other hand, maybe carry-on items shouldn't be allowed except for personal items. That way, boarding takes far less time because no one has to stow away anything.
That may not make an improvement because loading and unloading checked luggage can take a while, both in logistics to/from the aircraft but also in the actual fairly manual loading/unloading process.
If you are booked with someone else, you both get the earliest of the two boarding groups. Enough people fly alone that this still saves some time I guess
The problem in practice with boarding people in back first is that:
1. They tend to put their carry-on in the first bin they find in the front of the airplane. So people sitting in the front have to put theirs in the back. This is a disaster later in the boarding process because there isn't enough room for people to circulate back up to the front after they stow their carry-on.
2. Frequent fliers and people who purchased premium economy seats expect to be able to bring a carry-on. They tend to sit in the front the plane, so the problem for #1 affects them more.
This is relevant to United's new policy because boarding people with windows in the back board before people with aisles in the front.
You've asserted this first-encountered-bin idea twice in this thread that I've seen. I always fly economy so I'm generally on after most others have boarded, but I don't think I've ever seen the behavior you describe at least on US domestic flights over ~20 years flying now. From observing while departing the aircraft it seems the vast majority of people place their things above their own seats. Is this something that you see often personally or something you heard / was observed by somebody else somewhere?
Edit: I guess I'll have to keep a sharper eye out from here on to see if it's actually as common as you claim.
I have about 800k lifetime miles and see this on every flight. A lot of people do put their bags right next to them. A lot of people also drop it off on the first space that is available to them.
When I had status I used to sit in first class a lot. Some people try to dump their bags there, but get yelled at 100% of the time. People really love opening the bins for the people in the first row (no under-seat storage because there's a bulkhead; bins closed to make them less attractive to the dive bombers), but also usually get yelled at for that.
I have even seen this happen way in the back. I was sitting in row 21 or something and someone sitting in the last row put their bag right next to mine. Chuck it in there, walk to the back. Hope they put a passcode on their iPad!
I used to fly JFK-SFO and JFK-LAX a lot. Not sure I saw it as much on those routes.
It's common once the bins start filling up. You don't want to get to your seat to find no overhead space, having to go further down the aisle and then awkwardly shuffle back. Then when you land you now have to wait until everyone gets off to go to the back to get your stuff.
It's also a matter of getting to your seat at the back, finding no space, and then having to walk up and finding any remaining space has been taken... the non-asshole approach can be risky.
If you're boarding last (as I do voluntarily and involuntarily), you just shove your stuff wherever.
I guess in optimized boarding setups, anyone that voluntarily boards last is an asshole, but they tend to escape judgement.
> It's also a matter of getting to your seat at the back, finding no space, and then having to walk up and finding any remaining space has been taken ... If you're boarding last (as I do voluntarily and involuntarily), you just shove your stuff wherever
I get what you're saying, but I pay extra (a lot extra) to sit in the front and have more leg room, and forget about the fact you hate rich people, there out to be a place for my one carryon near where I'm sitting. Because if I have to walk to the back of the plane to stow, how will get to my bag after we land?
the asshole approach really is the asshole approach.
I know, I know, rich and asshole go together. Me paying for that seat, that comfort, should be balanced by me not being able to get my bag till everybody else has left the plane /s
> They tend to put their carry-on in the first bin they find in the front of the airplane
I personally haven't noticed this and I don't think it's very common. I thought that most people preferred to have their carry on in the bin closest to their seat in case they need to pull something out mid flight.
I’m little skeptical. Even before most airlines started charging for checked bags, they had first class board first, and then boarding groups by status. When checked bags were free, the overheads didn’t fill up very fast.
Frankly if I’m at the lounge, I’d much rather stay there another 15 minutes than spend it in a metal tube at the gate.
I think people want to board earlier because the airline says that earlier boarding denotes high status, and people love to be on top of a status game. It’s great to have the velvet rope open in front of you and be told you can go first. Unfortunately at the airport going first just means you get to sit in the tube longer.
If you watch on domestic flights, it's about a 60-40 split between people who put their carry on near them (60%) and people who throw it in the first free bin (40%)
But how much of that is because boarding is a complete mess, and the last thing you want is to get to the back of the plane where your seat is and that's all full already because for some reason all the people with status are also in the back. Then you have to wade "upstream" to put your bag somewhere.
If the plane was more reliably boarded in some sort of order, I'd be more relaxed about it.
> The problem in practice with boarding people in back first is that:
> 1. They tend to put their carry-on in the first bin they find in the front of the airplane. So people sitting in the front have to put theirs in the back. This is a disaster later in the boarding process because there isn't enough room for people to circulate back up to the front after they stow their carry-on.
What if every section had to put their bags in the compartments directly above them? Rows 50-60 get overhead section 50-60, rows 40-50 only put their stuff in overhead section 40-50 etc?
Or they could just start charging for carryons too. Then there'd probably be way less of it.
There's just not enough room for a dedicated carryon space per seat. And carryons i've seen lately are massive they don't even fit long wise into the compartment.
This is the real problem. It used to be free to check bags, so not everyone needed a carry-on. Now it costs money to check a bag so everyone needs a carry-on plus a personal item (in practice, a giant backpack that they shove their whole purse, laptop, and jacket into before awkwardly stashing it protruding out from under your seat and into the back of your feet).
There used to be extra room in all that overhead storage for a ton of blankets and pillows.
> planes should switch to pods, then we get loaded in bulk. Everybody gets strapped in before the plane even gets there, then load us all up with a forklift!
My palletized human logistics startup is applying for YC S24, and we’re currently accepting applications for test passengers.
Do people even follow the boarding order? Sometimes I can't hear what they say and I just get in line anyway, and I've never had an issue. Obviously people mostly follow it, and it wouldn't work if nobody listened to it, but I'm not sure that the gate attendants care if a few people queue at the wrong time.
Also, queuing order is only about who goes first. If you're in an early section, but show up late, you can still get in line. So in this proposed system you can still have window seaters showing up late and defeating the whole point of having them board first.
Several airports I use in Europe enforce it, as the automatic gates where you scan your boarding pass won't open unless the group has been called to board.
I’d not seen it widely enforced before this year, but on several recent flights with several airlines (including United) the gate agent has had to turn people back to wait their turn. I’m all for it.
I've had people sitting in the window seat while it was mine several times before, but upon telling them, they always moved away. I don't see how this would get worse with a rule like that in place.
Sitting in the middle can be pretty bad if you're a tall person. I once had a ~10 hour flight in the middle with a morbidly obese guy sitting on one side, and a ~200cm tall guy sit on the other. It was torture. I'm 188cm myself, so I'll be pretty crammed either way. I somewhat envy my girlfriend in that way, as she's asian-sized and can comfortably sit anywhere.
On my last flight with United, I got assigned a window seat in one of the exit rows. I thought 'great' as they offer extra leg room, but again, there was a morbidly obese person next to me, and he took up about 20% of my seat (or even more.) It was hard to breathe so I mostly sat on the bump of the emergency exit door. A flight attendant flew by and asked me if I was alright. I gesticulated to the guy (who was sleeping on an opioid pain killer mixed with Heineken) saying I can't breathe properly while being squished between a 300kg guy and the airplane window. She just shrugged and said there's nothing she could do as the plane was full.
I understand it is probably uncomfortable to fly for "extra size" people, but I also feel like I should at least get the very limited space I booked when I have to fly.
Your experience is why southwest is my preferred airline. Board in B group and choose who you sit next to. Or board in A and choose any seat, never a middle.
According to the first few Google results, Asian women in Asia tend to be ~5ft on average, Asian women in America are 5'1 while white and black women in America are about 5'4".
Yes, it was funny the first time I noticed the sizing in a sweatshirt of mine. I was a Medium in all countries listed but the single Asian country were it was considered an XL.
It can't be that hard to do this, if they want to. Boarding passes have group numbers now... For tickets under a single booking, pick the lowest group.
Assign low numbers to special people, then group 4 is windows in economy, group 5 is middles, group 6 is aisles.
People can try to cheat, but when the gate agent scans the ticket and it says not yet, you don't get to go.
Unless there is a penalty, some people will always try it - even if you get stopped, the worst case is your default boarding position. The only way to stop it is have a separate line ("sin bin"? :)) that the gate agent puts people in when they try to board early, so that they end up boarding last. Or force them check their bags.
Humans respond to incentives...
Poor wording is interfering with the conveyance of the message. Southwest lets you board the plane without an assigned seat, you then scan the plane and plop yourself down in your favorite. United lets you select a seat (on some fares) when you book the ticket or check in. You absolutely cannot board the plane and sit wherever you like. (You guys are interpreting the word "pick" as meaning both things.)
SeatGuru[1] is a godsend, especially if you are plus size or have special needs and need to choose comfortable or practical seats in advance. (Make sure to select the Seat Maps tab.)
planes should switch to pods, then we get loaded in bulk. Everybody gets strapped in before the plane even gets there, then load us all up with a forklift!