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The thing that troubles me is not that you don't like the HTTP verb solution, but that you don't seem to accept the fact that there is a client-side problem to solve in the first place.

Your argument is equivalent to saying that websites should protect themselves from DDoS attacks - and that users should simply accept that their machines will be hacked and will become part of a botnet (or several botnets) at some point in time. In other words, DDoS is a server-side problem, not a client problem. Whereas I (and I think that most people) believe that it is our responsibility to use our computing resources responsibly, and work hard to avoid being included in a botnet.

You seem like a smart person, and I'm sure you have something to contribute to the client-side of this issue, but that won't happen until you are convinced that there is a client-side problem.

In any event, somewhat selfishly I suppose, I've found this discussion quite useful in clarifying my own views on the matter. So, thank you for violently disagreeing with me. :)



Request forgery is nothing like DDoS. I found the rest of your comment too vague to respond to. I can't rebut anything you've said without repeating myself.

You keep saying CSRF is a "client-side problem", but you haven't explained why you think that, other than that it's a problem that is occurring in a client-server system so somehow the client must be involved. That's flimsy logic.


> Request forgery is nothing like DDoS.

Forgery is like DDoS in that they both use the unwitting (and unwilling) compute resources of an intermediate victim to mount the attack. The unit of distribution of the DDoS case is a binary rootkit (for example) and the unit of distribution for a forgery attack is a web page.

The impact of successful DDoS and CSRF attacks are very different, of course, but the mechanism used to carry them out is very similar. In particular, they both differ from an ordinary hacker-to-target penetration, DoS, forgery etc. attack.


You didn't answer my question.


You didn't ask a question (was there a question mark in your post that I missed?). You did, however, make an assertion which I corrected.

In an honest, respectful discussion that would occasion a response along the lines of either: "Ah, I didn't think about it like that. Let me see about adjusting the line of my reasoning," or, "No, your correction is invalid because..."


I think you would enjoy the book _The Tangled Web_ by Michel Zalewski, of Google's browser & web security team.




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