> I used to work in trading and I think some of the principles I learned there apply directly to salary negotiations.
I think exactly zero of those principles apply (assuming you are talking about stock exchange trades).
All these types of "technical analysis" on price-discovery during negotiations is fairly pointless.
There's only one rule that works when personally doing a trade with someone:(whether you're negotiating salary, buying a property or selling car) be likeable!
The more the other party likes you, the more flexible they are going to be on their price-points.
So, sure, the hiring manager has a band (say $100k to $140k). What you want is for him to make an offer at the top of his band ... or even higher - if you interview well they may decide on a more senior role for you.
This is why, even if your minimum is above his maximum, be likeable!
Even if you have already decided you don't want that job, be likeable!
Even if you don't want to work for that particular company, be likeable!
Even if you already have an offer in hand that is way above anything anyone else can offer you, be likeable!
What likeable means depends on context.
When selling a car, being upfront and having all the paperwork up to date, and all the services done on time and recorded as such, a clearance certificate to prove "not stolen", etc ... makes you likeable.
When negotiating a salary, gush about how nice their offices are, how their mission statement resonates with you, how wonderful the interviewers have been up to that point.[1] Make a list of things you admire about the company/its products/its vision ahead of time so that you can truthfully tell them all wonderful things about themselves.
Practice telling people horrible things in nice ways (called constructive criticism?). Practice, Practice, Practice! They will give you stupid challenges, maybe even broken code. How you respond must make them like you even more for the role.
You must come across as a collaborator and leverager, not as a coding genius. Coding geniuses are a dime a dozen. Competent coders who can act as a force multiplier for their team, their manager or their company are rare gems who get offered much more than genius coders.
Everywhere I've been at, or done work for, for over 25 years, has been filled with people who would rather work with pleasant people who are basically competent (or even slightly below average) than work with unpleasant people, no matter how good they are technically.
Look at highly paid surgeons: the ones making the most money are the ones filling every single one of their slots. They know - bedside manners matter.
[1] I spent a full day interview for a senior-ish (L5? L6? Dunno now) position at AWS. It was hard work, with challenges coming at me the whole day, coding, design, etc ... and yet I thanked every single interviewer for their time, and told them how much I appreciate them making the effort to interview me. I was warm, pleasant and friendly the whole day, not just civil, in spite of the constant set of new problems thrown my way.
Your main point was about salary negotiation (and I don't know much about that) but your example about interviewing is interesting to me:
> I spent a full day interview [...] and yet I thanked every single interviewer for their time, and told them how much I appreciate [...]
Where I work we became very sceptic about this trait in candidates, especially if someone is overdoing it. Then the suspicion rises whether they are overcomensating for another trait they believe about themselves.
I feel that being likable is table stakes and not something you would optimize for that much.
> Where I work we became very sceptic about this trait in candidates, especially if someone is overdoing it. Then the suspicion rises whether they are overcomensating for another trait they believe about themselves.
I'm also skeptical about overly positive candidates, but if their other visible traits are average, then there's no need for me to be paranoid.
The odds that there's a problem with them that I cannot determine during the interview is exactly the same as the odds for any other candidate.
Being that the odds are the same, I may as well get the person who everyone wants to work with.
>Look at highly paid surgeons: the ones making the most money are the ones filling every single one of their slots. They know - bedside manners matter.
If you are picking a surgeons based on this criteria, you are paying way too much for a 10 minutes conversation aka bedside manners. I personally will go with the rudest mf-er that will fix me right the first time.
I think exactly zero of those principles apply (assuming you are talking about stock exchange trades).
All these types of "technical analysis" on price-discovery during negotiations is fairly pointless.
There's only one rule that works when personally doing a trade with someone:(whether you're negotiating salary, buying a property or selling car) be likeable!
The more the other party likes you, the more flexible they are going to be on their price-points.
So, sure, the hiring manager has a band (say $100k to $140k). What you want is for him to make an offer at the top of his band ... or even higher - if you interview well they may decide on a more senior role for you.
This is why, even if your minimum is above his maximum, be likeable!
Even if you have already decided you don't want that job, be likeable!
Even if you don't want to work for that particular company, be likeable!
Even if you already have an offer in hand that is way above anything anyone else can offer you, be likeable!
What likeable means depends on context.
When selling a car, being upfront and having all the paperwork up to date, and all the services done on time and recorded as such, a clearance certificate to prove "not stolen", etc ... makes you likeable.
When negotiating a salary, gush about how nice their offices are, how their mission statement resonates with you, how wonderful the interviewers have been up to that point.[1] Make a list of things you admire about the company/its products/its vision ahead of time so that you can truthfully tell them all wonderful things about themselves.
Practice telling people horrible things in nice ways (called constructive criticism?). Practice, Practice, Practice! They will give you stupid challenges, maybe even broken code. How you respond must make them like you even more for the role.
You must come across as a collaborator and leverager, not as a coding genius. Coding geniuses are a dime a dozen. Competent coders who can act as a force multiplier for their team, their manager or their company are rare gems who get offered much more than genius coders.
Everywhere I've been at, or done work for, for over 25 years, has been filled with people who would rather work with pleasant people who are basically competent (or even slightly below average) than work with unpleasant people, no matter how good they are technically.
Look at highly paid surgeons: the ones making the most money are the ones filling every single one of their slots. They know - bedside manners matter.
[1] I spent a full day interview for a senior-ish (L5? L6? Dunno now) position at AWS. It was hard work, with challenges coming at me the whole day, coding, design, etc ... and yet I thanked every single interviewer for their time, and told them how much I appreciate them making the effort to interview me. I was warm, pleasant and friendly the whole day, not just civil, in spite of the constant set of new problems thrown my way.