Safari has far more weight here though people are loathe to admit it. Apple's market share is a direct check on Google's ability to push things through so easily.

Firefox unfortunately does not have the numbers on their side nor will they seemingly risk their Google payout deal. At this point, if you're using it, you're doing it because it has specific features or extensions you want, or you believe that it's ethically the right choice and you're comfortable with the trade-offs.

(I love Firefox, I just think we need to be realistic here)

Edit: I will actually note, in thinking after posting this comment, that it wouldn't surprise me if Apple was actually down for this proposal. Sigh.

I think the most important thing is getting off Chrome. And ideally completely off Chromium. I agree that Safari is a good option to keep Google on check at least for many changes. But having Mozilla in the story as well would also be valuable. Even if both Safari and Firefox could pass 50% together that would be a huge difference.

I don't like strict Apple AppStore policy to ban other browser engines, but I admit that it contributes web diversity much.

> Safari has far more weight here though people are loathe to admit it.

On HN people are more likely to complain about Safari existing and demand Chrome everywhere.

Is thst still the case? I've actually noticed much less Safari bashing over the last year or two, around the time the team seemed to really focus on shipping new specs and features again.

The main complaints I still see are related to the (likely illegal) lack of support for third party browsers, and missing web APIs for things like push notifications. Those are still valid complaints today though, for anyone who cares about them.

I meant "here" as in the topic at hand, not "here" as in HN.

See I thought about this.

Google's issue if the leverage they have by having Chome used. If it is just a derivative then that lessens their leverage because the vendors of those derivative browsers do have the option of modifying Google's choices.

But if you disagree, then yes, sure: use Firefox.

I agree that it lessens their control to use a derivative but it is still some control. I agree that these are far better than Chrome, but still less of an impact than a fully independent browser.

I think on HN there are too many people who don't switch because they are letting "perfect" be the goal rather than "improvement".

Firefox and Safari have the same market-share pressure. Why/how would people use a browser that doesn't work on websites they use?