Peterson is a perfect example of how being reasonable doesn't work. His ideology/commentary had nowhere near the delusion and woe-is-me gnashing of teeth that Tate's grift revolves around, it is nowhere near as destructive to its target audience and society, and it caught the dude so much shit that he basically self-destructed. There was a $35 million film made where the villain was based on him, with the director having this to say:

"We based that character on this insane man, Jordan Peterson, who is this pseudo-intellectual hero to the incel community. You know the incels? They’re basically disenfranchised, mostly white men, who believe they are entitled to sex from women. And they believe that society has now robbed them—that the idea of feminism is working against nature, and that we must be put back into the correct place. Yeah, they’re actually succeeding in many different ways. But this guy Jordan Peterson is someone that legitimizes certain aspects of their movement because he’s a former professor, he’s an author, he wears a suit, so they feel like this is a real philosophy that should be taken seriously."

If you're integrated into the modern US corporate society and media landscape, and think that some portion of Peterson's outlook is potentially helpful, keep that shit to yourself. That you will even humor his ideas is grounds for people with brain worms to attack your moral character. If it starts to make noise, your employer may not want to deal with it. Your friends and family may not want to deal with it. Mum's the word; you are only going to hurt yourself.

I would say that one of the few people in this specific media market that stands any chance of telling people that are looking to Tate and Peterson for advice something that may actually help them is Sam Hyde. Outside of his inflammatory comedy, his commentary on how to deal with being lost is hard to hear for somebody that's there, but ultimately as close as some talking head on the internet will ever get to helping somebody like that. He has pretty much completely checked out of "normal" society, so lost people looking integrate with "normal" society aren't going to find him. They'll find Tate instead, who has a relatively easy "answer" and is trying as hard as he can to change the world to fit it. Reasonable people commentating on this are doomed to fail in the current environment.

Couldn't agree more, and I've spent a lot of time looking at this particular strain of culture from both sides and talking to high up figures inside of it. I'm surprised by the commentary here in other threads, and it does make me imagine how much time people have spent investigating this world versus strongly articulating "is-ought" fallacies.

Haven't kept up with Sam Hyde after MDE got the axe. I saw a youtube vid where he answers a stream question about sleeping around. How does he communicate to his following nowadays?

Jordan Peterson's focus on trans people/fat women instead of men's issues is hella distracting though

It is, but part of being a man (and more importantly, a good person) is understanding that there's a limit to how much you should be looking up to somebody. At some point, the sense of right and wrong you have developed in your life needs to override the mental influence somebody has over you, at which point you can appreciate and continue doing the good that they do without perpetuating the bad. Somebody who has developed as a man probably first experiences this with their parents (or parent figures), and continues experiencing it multiple times throughout their life. There's no reason somebody can't do it first with Peterson. It's a valuable lesson.

In retrospect I probably shouldn't have made such a claim, since I really don't know much about Jordan Peterson and his views.

Most of what I've seen is him motivating and trying to help young/lost men, which seems like an admirable cause.

It turns out directly helping people matters more than writing hifalutin papers about helping people.

I have 0 idea what this is trying to say.

Is his academic past bad because it is highfaluting? Or is the outcome justify the means and helping people is ok even if you also cause a lot of problems along the way?

Also, giving advice through books is indirectly helping them, he is not making your bed, he is telling you to do it. Directly is going the way of literally to just mean emphasis