Actually I think a man who doesn't seriously acknowledge their own self as an emotional being is the opposite of adapting and overcoming. There should be nothing weak about acknowledging when you're too upset to handle a situation. My professional life would be vastly improved if the men around me had the emotional intelligence to realize they're getting worked up about a code review or something and to take a walk for 10 min instead of assuming their anger is always logically justified somehow.

Sharing your struggles doesn't make you weak. Asking for help doesn't make you weak. You are struggling, and you look for help because you are in a situation where the challenge is beyond your means. Sharing and asking for help can be part of adaption and part of overcoming.

If one man has the resources within themselves to eventually learn to adapt and overcome to any situation, imagine how much stronger and how quickly you can become strong by combining the resources and understanding of many men.

Sharing your struggles and asking for help is NOT the same thing as "standing around crying about their struggles".

> Sharing your struggles doesn't make you weak. Asking for help doesn't make you weak.

In the western paradigm of masculinity it absolutely does. (And if you want to tear down the western paradigm of masculinity, I'd suggest making sure you have a better replacement ready first)

I want to tackle this from a few angles.

First, I'll give you that western paradigm of masculinity does make it likely that a male asking for help will make you look weak. However, I'd drive in even harder. If you are struggling, are you "already weak". You lack the capability and resources to easily resolve the challenge at hand. All you are doing is hiding your weakness. You are bluffing. You are being the guy who seems all stable on the surface until, SNAP, he's some unreliable flaky shit face who can't take the pressure.

You're not being strong. You're not being helpful. You're being brittle. You're setting yourself, and those who depend on you up for a sudden, surprising failure.

Second, I'd say that the western paradigm of masculinity does actually provide room to maneuver. Actually -asking- for help is yes... a bit dodgy. But complaining (ie, sharing your challenges) is absolutely in the cards. And there's plenty of space for men to be good friends and supporters for other men, to help them through challenges, even if you do not ask for help. The 'unexpected save/help from the initially non-committal friend' is a common trope. Being the guy who helps out is absolutely part of our common western culture.

Finally, I don't want to tear down the western paradigm of masculinity. I hardly thinking adding the attribute "be willing to ask for help when the situation demands it" is tearing down. If anything it's building up.

> If you are struggling, are you "already weak". You lack the capability and resources to easily resolve the challenge at hand. All you are doing is hiding your weakness. You are bluffing. You are being the guy who seems all stable on the surface until, SNAP, he's some unreliable flaky shit face who can't take the pressure.

> You're not being strong. You're not being helpful. You're being brittle. You're setting yourself, and those who depend on you up for a sudden, surprising failure.

Not convinced. "Fake it till you make it" is pretty masculine. So is noble failure against overwhelming odds. Someone who needs help and doesn't ask for it may well be held in higher regard than someone who doesn't need help and ask for it.

> And there's plenty of space for men to be good friends and supporters for other men, to help them through challenges, even if you do not ask for help. The 'unexpected save/help from the initially non-committal friend' is a common trope. Being the guy who helps out is absolutely part of our common western culture.

Sure. So enabling more of that would be a good move. Maybe rebuild some of the male social spaces that have been systematically torn down over the last few decades.

> I hardly thinking adding the attribute "be willing to ask for help when the situation demands it" is tearing down. If anything it's building up.

Culture is tricky and complex. You can't just change one thing and expect it to not have knock-on effects. Coming up with ways to make it safer for men to get help would be a positive change. But just telling men they need to ask for help might well do more harm than good.

I've got no problem helping those who ask for help. I don't see it as weakness.

Then tell me how I, someone who no longer struggles with the topic in question, that it's too tough and not worth trying and just wants to give excuses? Yeah. That's weakness.

You misunderstand societies view on men, by both men and women. Not "your" view on it, but how people generally see it.

Asking == crying.

What boys need in order to become men are coping skills. I... didn't really get these growing up. I was simply taught that "men don't cry" and there are consequences for having been seen to cry. I started covering up the times I cried, and then I learned there are consequences for lying, too. I had to figure out a lot on my own, and it took longer than it should have.

And this is what "toxic masculinity" is.