I think we're on the same page about it being totally reasonable and fair for individuals to have their own tolerances and security postures. We need more principled people in the world, keep it up!

Let me put it this way. In this case, specifically, what you're claiming is pretty outrageous and, if true, sounds like something I should take more seriously too. If you can give me examples of Tesla abusing users' trust and operating in a way that is not in accordance with their privacy policy, user consent, and/or general understanding of techno-decency, then please surface the evidence to support your claims so I can consider your argument more seriously. Otherwise what you're claiming does not align with my experience owning a Tesla and my knowledge about how they're designed and engineered.

The pragmatic in me understands that there is always a risk that a future software update will change the behavior of a product in a way that is not in my interests. That is a risk I take by using any software product and something that responsible people keep an eye on, agreed. I'm just not going to categorically avoid software that can be updated out of fear that it could start spying on me. If it starts spying on me without my consent, good bye.

I also understand that we may even have different tolerances for living with connected hardware and software. If you're the type of person that compiles their own firmware and updates their own devices offline after personally vetting the software, I'd buy your concern about trust a little more too. But honestly it just sounds more like you're saying "yuck Tesla, I wouldn't trust them to build a respectful product", while ignoring the fact that you're likely posting this from a smartphone, if you know what I mean.

> In this case, specifically, what you're claiming is pretty outrageous and, if true, sounds like something I should take more seriously too.

I have made no specific claims, I think. If I did, they were unintentional. What I'm claiming is more general: that in the tech industry, data collection on users has been so widely abusive that I am not comfortable trusting any company with data collection by default. Specific companies can earn my trust, of course. No car company has done that, therefore I trust none of them with my data.

Is this the claim you're referring to?

> But honestly it just sounds more like you're saying "yuck Tesla, I wouldn't trust them to build a respectful product"

I do not intend to be singling Tesla out except insofar as Tesla (as I understand it) engages in more data collection than other car manufacturers. That said, I'm a bit more suspicious of Tesla just because of Musk. Not a lot more suspicious, but some.

> while ignoring the fact that you're likely posting this from a smartphone

I'm not. But I also have mentioned here that when my current smartphone dies, I won't be replacing it with another -- specifically because it's become so difficult to render them safe that it absorbs too much of my time and energy. That makes the cost/benefit of a smartphone too unfavorable for my tastes.

But with the smartphone I currently have, I do not use it for very much online stuff -- certainly not for web browsing -- anyway, because of safety concerns.