Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

This is an ideological take, and an American one at that. Not necessarily a fact.


I mean, fair, but when even the Americans are saying to let the investors lose their shirts, you might want to at least think about it.


This isn't about investors, it's about creditors.


Also fair, I used the wrong word there.

Though, I don't think the distinction really matters within the context of my point. Both investors and creditors are exchanging money for a bet on future profit derived from the company being solvent in the future and having extra money to either pay back debts or pay out dividends.

My point is that America tends to get a lot of flak for rigging the system in favor of those with excess money (some of it is even fair). My point is that if you want to structure your system past what we're willing to do, you may want to stop and think for a second about if that's what you really want.

Now, if you want to protect the money of people with extra money to lend out, that's absolutely fine. It's a completely internally consistent position. But my understanding is that it's not that popular of a position, so I'm surprised the system is set up this way.


> Both investors and creditors are exchanging money for a bet on future profit derived from the company being solvent

Nope, that's still just investors.

Creditors are not people who made bets on the company's future profits. Creditors are people who the company made legally binding contracts with to pay them. For example people who provided products and services who are getting stiffed. Also: taxes due.

Even a bank loan is not a bet on the company's future profits. A bank loan is a contract that says you will repay the money lent, with interest. Irrespective of profitability.

Which is why a limited liability company usually can't get credit unless it is also guaranteed by someone else. Because with no outside guarantees, it would be a bet. (Yes, convertible bonds exist, but different topic).


I think you misinterpreted my statement here. The future profit I'm talking about is the profit of the creditor (or investor).

That being said, I completely disagree with this part:

> Creditors are not people who made bets on the company's future profits.

Nope, that's not how reality works. If the company doesn't have the money (including their assets), you aren't getting paid.

Extending credit is fundamentally a risk. That's one of the reasons credit card companies charge interest.


Investors and/or startup loans, depending on structure, are generally right at the top of the list of creditors.


https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/corporate-liquid...

> Shareholders are often last in line to receive proceeds with preferred stock shareholders getting better treatment than common stock shareholders.

Loans aren't shares; not even early loans. Else they'd get much better returns from the successful businesses.


It reflects a system where that shields creditors from fewer risks. Nothing wrong with that per se.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: