And yet there are many people of all ages who would disagree and say other drugs (including alcohol) were just as life affirming and low risk based on their own life long usage.

Those people clearly have not done MDMA

I'm just taking it up a level. I'm guessing the meth user looks at you and says,

"You clearly haven't taken Meth."

If MDMA users claim it's profound, is it really the same in the eyes of a meth user who has done both MDMA and meth? If the meth user can invalidate the experience with his own, then what does it say in general?

I challenge you to find a meth user that tells you meth is profound, opening experience that brings you closer to people and helps you know yourself.

(edit - rate limited so can't respond below. 'Meth' is a strong stimulant, with some associated euphoria, it's not a profound emotional experience like mdma. Yes I'm speaking from experience. Phenethylamine-derived drugs are massively varied in their effects, see also for example the true-psychedelic mescaline, 2C-x and, well, the whole of Pihkal)

I'm looking for a person who has done BOTH meth and MDMA and I want him to compare the experience of each. My guess is that Meth operates on another level of profoundness, one that is both different and significantly higher then MDMA.

My guess is that once you take Meth, MDMA isn't really that big of a deal anymore.

I can confirm this isn't true.

They're totally different. My experience of them was totally different.

I found mdma more personal, soul-engaging, pleasurable and enlightning.

Meth was just overwhelming, rushy, detached feeling euphoria with a air of anxiety.

have done both. meth is a strong drug but its experience is absolutely not “profound” at all

why do you keep making comments like this about meth in this thread?

better comparison, LSD and shrooms are very profound, but in a different way than E, think like introspective -vs- social

even better comparison is 2ct7, felt like a nice balanced combination of mdma and lsd, profound but not overwhelmingly

I kept making comments because nobody answered. I now have answers thanks.

'Life affirming' is completely different to being fucked out of your head. MDMA can give you a stronger connection to the important things in life (love, relationships, your feelings) when used sensibly (just like many other drugs). Hard drugs like meth can become your life, no thanks..

I already stated the risk is irrelevant to the discussion.

Here's a better way to phrase the question. Has someone who has taken both MDMA, heroin and Meth care to explain the differences in "profoundness" or "life affirmation" levels of each drug?

I suspect ignorance is bliss. People who haven't taken MDMA don't know how profound it is. People who have taken MDMA but not Meth don't realize that MDMA is childs play and that Meth is even more profound.

That's not quite how drugs work. I've done many of them. They each have an effect that is distinct and separate from their risk profile and addiction properties.

Cocaine feels very different to MDMA and heroin is different still.

MDMAs effect is one of filling your brain and body with love, bliss, sexuality and euphoria. Every sense you have is now coloured with absolute pleasure.

That's a very specific feeling. Comparing the effects of drugs in a way that judges their relative value is usually not helpful.

For example MDMA isn't hallucination inducing like LSD.

Other drugs transport your consciousness to completely alien experiences of space and time.

MDMA isn't like that. You're still you and your experiences, experienced through a new lense of pleasure.

There is always overlap, the palette of chemicals to alter in your brain is limited and these drugs alter often the same ones in different ways.

It isn't the drug that is important, but the experience. That's subjective and as tricky as judging the beauty of art.

Cocaine for example is fun. It feels good. You're energised, uninhibited, and combined with alcohol products enhanced euphoria. But if cocaine is Jackson Pollock then MDMA is Georgia O'Keeffe.

I am not comparing coke and MDMA nor am I comparing LSD. I know the profiles of those drugs I am not referring to that. Those drugs have less overlap with MDMA.

Have you done MDMA AND heroin/Meth? More important meth. Because these drugs have a huge overlap when you examine the physiological effects. Pleasure, love and bliss are generated by the same chemical.

I have. They're not the same and i dont find meth profound or at all enlighting. Amphetamine based drugs have a very different effect. That's why ecstacy is usually a mixture of amphetamine and MDMA. MDMA for the emotion, speed so you can engage without just being a soft wobbly lovegasm.

I don't know of, first had or by proxy, another drug as gentle and wonderful as mdma.

It is my drug of choice, maybe once or twice a year because I feel it is unique in the ones I've tried. The risks are worth the reward.

There is literal overlap, MDMA is 3,4-Methyl enedioxy methamphetamine

MDMA is in a class of drugs called 'substituted amphetamines' which are a sub-class of 'substituted phenethylamines'. The chemical name for the drug ending in methamphetamine is not an indicator that it has the same effects as the drug methamphetamine. The following is from the 'phenethylamine' English language wikipedia entry as of 2023/01/14:

Many substituted phenethylamines are psychoactive drugs, which belong to a variety of different drug classes, including central nervous system stimulants (e.g., amphetamine), hallucinogens (e.g., 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine), entactogens (e.g., 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine), appetite suppressants (e.g. phentermine), nasal decongestants and bronchodilators (e.g., pseudoephedrine), antidepressants (e.g. bupropion), antiparkinson agents (e.g., selegiline), and vasopressors (e.g., ephedrine), among others. Many of these psychoactive compounds exert their pharmacological effects primarily by modulating monoamine neurotransmitter systems; however, there is no mechanism of action or biological target that is common to all members of this subclass.

Meth is a feeling of high alertness and impatients with the slowness of everything. MDMA is a feeling of love for all and just good vibes from all. The alertness of MDMA is overshadowed by the good vibes. Opiates are a feeling of warmness from euphoria, like a good orgasm, that lasts a long time.

There is a bit of overlap on feelings but Molly isn't like straight amphetamines and opiates don't feel the same at all. If I had to try to correlate the feeling of these substances to sober feelings here is what I would say. Amphetamines are like the anticipation/anxiety of a big event or meeting a new love. MDMA is like being in love, but with everything and everyone. Opiates are like a really long, whole body, orgasm. Just pure euphoria.