Anecdotally, I’m having one hell of a time with my 3yo and 5yo’s teeth.
No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right.
And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities.
I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor dental hygiene, and not a single cavity until our teens.
I’m not saying it’s because of this organism or any specific thing. But I cannot shake the feeling that something significant has changed in the last 30 years.
It is my understanding (from reading Kiss Your Dentist Goodbye) that bacteria is seeded from primary caregivers in the first year of life, and it can be difficult to modify them after this, but it’s possible.
My sister has impeccable dental hygiene and many cavities. Her children have had anesthesia because they needed so much dental work. I’m the kind of person who would floss once a year and never had a cavity until I was 28 and drinking many acidic diet sodas. I started the book’s regimen using xylitol, eating basic foods like chocolate and cheese after acidic foods and drinks, took Florassist dental probiotic and stayed on top of cleanings and have had less problems since. My child is okay so far despite some not so great habits. I get extra cleanings that first year and make sure other caregivers do too.
Could be something has changed, or else something else is at work. I had wretched teeth throughout my youth and through my late 20s. I have 8 or 9 crowns maybe 16 teeth, a few with fillings; some were pulled for orthodontic work. Then about 10 years ago I stopped regular dental hygiene practices: I brush my teeth once a day (most days) and rarely floss. Haven't had a "watch" in years since I dropped the practice of flossing once a day and brushing twice. My breath isn't foul smelling, either, except when I have tonsil stones (which is rare these days). Maybe for me the hygiene disrupted whatever was in my mouth that was disrupting the bad bacteria.
I’ve flirted with conspiracy-like thoughts on the dental industry and how they might be “confidently wrong” about things the way the rest of the medical industry famously has been on numerous topics over the centuries.
I wondered (with absolutely no basis in fact) things like, “maybe the calcified tartar forms a barrier?”
Man I hate this line of thought because I completely fall into it too, haha. For a really, really long period of life, I had just awful dental hygiene practices. Honestly don't even want to describe it because it makes me a little disgusted with myself (ironically, in a way). But, I also never had dental issues. Ate whatever, drank whatever, didn't care.
Then a few years ago I get my shit together more and start a daily routine. A few months in, I finally visit a dentist for, I swear, the first time in a decade. I'm expecting them to find the motherload of disease in there, but nope. They tell me everything looks fine, except for a tiny bit of gingivitis. Take some x-rays and I'm on my way. 6 months later, worst head pain of my life turns out to be a deep one that needs a root canal. Now I've got a bunch of fillings, a crown, etc.
I still brush daily and my mouth feels like shit if I go without for a few days. I know in all logical ways, it's just a string of luck and coincidence. But damn does the conspiracy part of the brain start spinning up on my anecdotal experiences... lol.
I haven't had any cavity in over a decade. However, there is a Huge hole on top a molar about which I am worried. But the dentist always says it is not a problem.
Maybe a feature like that one can turn into a bad cavity when dental hygiene is abandoned for a short time?. I hope I don't find out!
I'm pretty convinced that fluoride is not needed in water or toothpaste. My family of four uses reverse osmosis to remove fluoride from tap, and have used fluoride-free toothpaste for the last 10 years. We all have impeccable dental health despite regular sugar in our diets, but we do practice strict flossing and brushing.
There's actually a lot of evidence that you're right. But only in places where flouride toothpaste use is high. It seems it mostly makes a difference in areas where use of flouride toothpaste isn't widespread. In areas where it is, the risk of dental flourosis (though a relatively small risk) seems to outweigh the potential benefits
Whatever the case is nano-hydroxyapatite is quietly becoming available on the US market and kids can safely swallow it so they don't develop fluorosis like I did which never goes away for the rest of your life
This sounds similar to how not all biofilms are cariogenic and can actually play a lot of beneficial roles. We have a lot of evidence[0] that in the past we had a much more commensal microbiome but the shift to a more cariogenic one was actually rather recent. I feel like it's very likely that our oral microbiomes simply haven't had enough time to adapt to the massive shift in modern lifestyles and diet but used to play a mostly beneficial role in our health, much like our gut microbiome did. I mean just look at Google Pics of the teeth of wild monkeys and apes. Pearly whites! No dentist needed
> But I cannot shake the feeling that something significant has changed in the last 30 years.
This doesn't make sense unless everyone around you also suddenly got more cavities recently. If you ask around more, you'll find that there have always been people with good hygiene that get more cavities, and others that don't seem to get them despite poor habits. It may be related your specific oral bacterial biome, or diet.
My teeth were always complimented by the dentist as being beautiful. This is despite plenty of juice, candy, snacks, no special diet, etc, outside of regular dental cleanings and making sure to spend proper time brushing each tooth. I’m 24.
Maybe you're doing too much and that's resulting in an unhealthy oral microbiota? I would imagine these microbes have a symbiotic relationship with us, similar to gut bacteria.
> The composition of oral microbiota remained surprisingly constant between Neolithic and Medieval times, after which (the now ubiquitous) cariogenic bacteria became dominant, apparently during the Industrial Revolution. Modern oral microbiota are markedly less diverse than historic populations, which might be contributing to chronic oral (and other) disease in post-industrial lifestyles.
I had the opposite experience. 9 cavities in my youth, and my brother had more. My two sons, 7 and 10, have perfect dental health. We are vegan and do eat less sweets than others, but it's not zero, and there is significant sugar in our diet. We've never used fluoride toothpaste but we have been very rigorous in teaching them how to properly floss and brush, and have almost never missed doing it.
I would have thought something changed in the opposite direction in the last 30 years.
Natural sources of K include kale, collard greens, spinach, turnip greens, brussels sprouts, broccoli, asparagus, lettuce, sauerkraut, soybeans,edamame, pickles, pumpkin, pine nuts and blueberries.
When young I willingly ate the last two on the list if they were available. Only the command "Eat your vegetables!" at dinner made me partake otherwise.
No cavities so far. Last time i checked I was 25 years old. I brush my teeth once a day.
I consider myself lucky, since my siblings have had a couple cavities. My mother attributes this to her being very careful when we were babies to not share any spoons to give us some bacteria from saliva.
My 6yo have had zero cavities so far. Me too had none for years, since we greatly reduced raw sugar from our diet to almost zero. No snacks, lots of fruits, sugar free yogurts etc.
Try giving your kids xylitol candies/mints (available at amazon and many health food stores), initially after every meal - you can probably reduce the frequency/amount later.
There are xylitol chewing gum, but I've read articles about kids dislike for chewing gum these days - so candies/mints may be more palatable.
search for "xylitol tooth decay" for explanation about its effects.
Mutans streptococci (MS or S. mutans) are a bacterium in plaque and saliva that are major contributors to tooth decay and oral disease.
...xylitol reduces the levels of MS in the mouth. It essentially starves the MS bacterium by not providing any energy to it when metabolized. Since xylitol is a non-nutritive sugar the MS bacteria spend energy to metabolize it and in return receive no energy gain from it. It’s a sunken cost and the S. mutans cannot keep growing. This reduces the population of S. mutans and impedes the ability of plaque and bacteria to adhere to our teeth. It also decreases the amount of lactic acid present in our mouth, making our teeth less vulnerable to decay. Curiously xylitol does all of this without affecting the other beneficial, or overall, flora of our mouths.
Another amazing find has been that when a mother of a newborn uses xylitol, that child’s teeth prove to be more resilient against cavities as they develop. Children have a dramatically lower risk of cavities when their mothers use xylitol starting 3-6 months after childbirth and continue using it until all their baby teeth are formed around the age of 2.
Xylitol comes in many forms but the most common delivery method is through chewing gum. Chewing xylitol gum for 3 weeks or more provides not only short but also long-term reductions in S. mutans levels! Even just the action of chewing the gum helps to rinse away lactic acids.
In order to be effective against bacteria the optimal intake levels are at least 6-10g of xylitol per day. Xylitol gums range from having .75g – 1g of xylitol per piece. So make sure to check the gum that you’re buying to make sure it contains closer to the ~1g/piece mark. In order to reach those levels you will need to chew more than one piece at a time a few times a day. After meals is a great routine to get into, but make sure to wait for at least 20 minutes after eating food before chewing xylitol gum.
Is it really a big deal though? Their teeth are going to be replaced anyway. If it happens in the adult teeth, then worry. Serious question -- I don't have children and it is tough to tell the difference between 'actual problem' and 'parents worry too much'.
Great question. My understanding is that it is a big deal for a few reasons:
- there's 3-5 years more time for 3yo to have these teeth. If the prognosis was long term, maybe no big deal. But cavities over _years_ can turn into far worse conditions
- these _are_ practice teeth in a way. So let's practice proper dental care now so we don't ruin the adult teeth later.
- dentist said there's an assortment of ways damaged baby teeth can harm the adult teeth
It is probably in the job definition of a parent to worry too much. Seriously, I always thought my parents were constantly overreacting, but now I get it. Because for the parent its also often tough to tell, and its also really easy to underestimate problems, especially when they are young. So better safe than sorry, I guess.
For example, really young children can dehydrate to the point of requiring immediate hospitalization within 24 hours, which happens quite fast when they are sick.
People have varying quality tooth enamel. My friend is meticulous with oral care yet still gets cavities. Her brother-in-law is her dentist (and mine). He said there's not much she can do to improve it.
I could be that their enamel is not strong enough. This could change once they get their adult teeth. Have you checked with your dentist that they are receiving enough fluoride?
Except that every pediatric dentist you can find is pretty sure it has been a factor in large spike in cavities. However good luck having that research done properly that risks being used by anti-maskers.
No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right.
And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities.
I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor dental hygiene, and not a single cavity until our teens.
I’m not saying it’s because of this organism or any specific thing. But I cannot shake the feeling that something significant has changed in the last 30 years.