This guy is popping on stage with Michael Flynn, who is doing a national tour combining 'Stop the Steal' election theft narratives with New Apostolic Revival theology.
I think this conversation is an example of people living in different worlds, and it's the type of thing that has been created out of the place that things like what I linked above have pushed the discourse.
In my world: the nazis were essentially a psychotic death cult who engaged in genocide. They didn't work up to this. This was core to their political ideology starting in 1920.
But there seems to be another world where the Nazis were just some bad guys with some bad ideas or something, and in that world random politicians who say anything outside of mainstream, American leftwing political ideology are "nazis".
Obviously I think that's bad, since like I said before I think its a form of holocaust denial. In fact this was something that soldiers and journalists worried about when they found the nazi death camps at the end of the war. They worried that in the future people wouldn't believe that this had happened, or wouldn't understand how bad it was.
It seems like that has happened. I think that in a large part mass media like twitter has facilitated it.
What I would say is: please study history. The nazis weren't just some bad guys. They tried to kill several entire races of people, and erase their existence from history. They succeeding in killing a lot of them before we were able to stop them. It cannot be overstated how evil the Nazis were, and I wish people would stop trying to downplay this.
> random politicians who say anything outside of mainstream, American leftwing political ideology are "nazis"
> its a form of holocaust denial
This is nonsensical and self-contradictory. People on the far right today are compared to Nazis because they are articulating the exact same ideas of genocidal elimination, sometimes with explicit reference to and endorsement of the Nazis. you're invoking 'random politicians' as if they were quirky nobodies in unimportant political backwaters, but this is demonstrably not the case. I can point to members of Congress and and successful state level politicians that openly endorse far right anti-Semitic propagandists.
> What I would say is: please study history. The nazis weren't just some bad guys. They tried to kill several entire races of people, and erase their existence from history. They succeeding in killing a lot of them before we were able to stop them.
It's because I've studied history that I think you are (at best) staggeringly naive. The Nazis were clear about the intensity of their animus towards Jews and lots of other groups, but not explicit about how they were going to achieve their goals of eradication (because they didn't know). As a result few took them particularly seriously at first, and even when they took power foreign observers assumed they would set aside their bombastic demagoguery in favor of mundane administrative efforts. The same sort of unwillingness to contemplate political risks obtains now, and it is just as foolish.
I wonder what effect this sort of "debate" in public is having on people's ability to talk to each other.
In a normal discussion if you and I were just talking to each other and nobody was watching, it would be easy for you to just admit that you are wrong. You are wrong about your comparisons between center right American politicians being similar in any meaningful way to Nazis (for instance: both Nazis and American conservatives use spoken word to convey their messages. They both held political rallies. These are not meaningful similarities.), and you are also wrong about your understanding of people raising their hands in prayer.
Do a google search for "lifting single hand while praying in church" and you will find pages and pages and pages of religious people debating the biblical relevance of this. There is absolutely nothing meaningfully similar between a religious person raising their hand in prayer (what was happening in the linked video) and a Nazi salute.
You were just simply incorrect about this, seemingly because you didn't know about the practice of religious people doing this.
In a normal conversation, it would be easy for you to just receive this piece of information you didn't have previously, integrate it into your understanding about the world, and rebuild your arguments around this new understanding.
But online, especially with twitter and the like, every one of these discussion is effectively happening on a stage in front of hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people. People (I think you are doing this right now) will go so far to avoid being wrong about something, that they eventually get to the point of having to build and present a world model that is totally rotated around the thing they were wrong about. The entire world has to change to support this minor inaccuracy in what was said.
So for example: instead of acknowledging the fact that you were just wrong about how people pray, you are now building out this world in which The United States of America is filled with thousands of churches full of millions of people who for the last several hundred years at least have been signaling their alignment with a genocidal, national socialist German death cult.
Can you see how that's a problem? Not the way you're engaging with this (which I do think is a problem), but the fact of making all of every conversation public?
Even suppose we were having this conversation in a private message. Even that doesn't matter because either of us could just screenshot it, put it on twitter, and invite the mob to ridicule the person who was wrong.
Look at the lengths people will go to protect their idea of "well actually the entire world is wrong and I'm right".
It's really scary stuff.
I don't think it's necessary to continue talking to you about Nazis and how American Christians are or aren't signaling an alignment with them. However in the spirit of good argument, I think it's also rude to try to take the last word and not let somebody reply. Feel free to respond to this, but after that I won't be replying to you anymore.
Of course they talked about it, they did so for years before putting their genocidal aspirations into action.
> Is there a single US politician calling for this or anything even remotely aligned with it?
Sure: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/washington-state-r...
This guy is popping on stage with Michael Flynn, who is doing a national tour combining 'Stop the Steal' election theft narratives with New Apostolic Revival theology.