Over the years I've seen several female friends try to stay vegan. One managed a decade before she couldn't put up with the anemia any more. The others quit sooner, because of weight loss, malnutrition, and other issues.
It seems humans were evolved to scavenge animals as well as eating plants. It's not just protein, it's iron and fats, and a few other things.
Maybe it was challenging before, but honestly, getting enough iron and protein in a vegan diet today is pretty trivial. There are plant based alternatives to more or less everything these days.
I'm vegetarian,, and only for 3 or 4 years, but honestly there's nothing really missing at all for me.
On every HN thread about meat there are people claiming they know dozens of people that nearly died because they stopped eating meat, completely neglecting that there are entire cultures that eat pretty much no meat[0]. Or the fact that there are numerous studies about how we eat too much meat and how it affects our health[1]. Sorry, I just don't believe it. Or my experience is just vastly different, because nobody I know that went vegan had side-effects as described by these comments. It's like you said, getting your nutrients on a vegan diet is trivial nowadays, especially if you live in a developed country. The only explanation I have is that people are scared to lose their burgers.
Vegan and vegetarian are pretty different. I don't have a problem staying healthy (and enjoying a dinner or two out every week) without meat, but I think it would be extremely hard for me to do that and keep vegan. As I'm allergic to nuts a decent chunk of common substitutes are off limits.
Is it still possible? Sure, but giving up dairy/eggs would be a much bigger sacrifice to me than giving up meat, and it goes beyond just enjoying the foods - the effort required to maintain a balanced diet would have additional time and social costs that vegetarianism doesn't for me.
I think a much more fruitful avenue for persuasion (and this applies to vegetarianism too) is to encourage people to try cutting back on the products, perhaps start with one day a week meat-free. Different people may find it easier or harder based on a number of life circumstances, but the easier they find it, the more they may cut back.
Vegan for ~15 years here. It's important to be thoughtful about nutrition when going that route (I do various supplements 2-3x day). Common pitfalls for people are B vitamins, zinc, and iron (as your friend found out the hard way, perhaps), and there are vegan gummies with these specific vitamins/minerals in them.
I'm the only one in my family that will take a pill. Everyone else will only do gummies. I'm with you, but I'm the minority in my small sample. I'd be looking to maximize absorption/bioavailability vs. flavor.
We evolved to hunt animals. The evidence being our capacity for long distance running, our bipedal stature freeing up our forelimbs for grabbing / killing with tools, our intelligence, our dentition. We shouldn't be ashamed of this fact any more than you should be ashamed that your dog or cat is a carnivore. At least we have the choice to not be cruel to the animal as we eat it, we can kill it humanely rather than disemboweling it and eating it guts first while it's still screaming in pain.
We also evolved to store calories as fat. But, turns out that if you do that excessively, it's not that much of a benefit anymore.
When was the last time you ran a long distance to kill a deer? For the majority of people, it's mainly about long distance driving to the supermarket to pick up a cut of meat. The cognitive dissonance is pretty real here. There is no screaming to be heard at the supermarket checkout. If there were, I don't think we would be having this discussion.
> ... we can kill it humanely ...
That's some wishful thinking if I've ever seen it. I encourage you to actually look at how most animals are kept and slaughtered. Then again, after the "life" most of those animals have been living, death, in whatever form, is a relief.
> That's some wishful thinking if I've ever seen it.
I said we can kill them humanely and there are slaughterhouses that enforce good practices. I didn't say all animals are killed humanely and I didn't say we should favor the worst of the factory farming practices. They often produce substandard meat anyways. I don't think meat should be as cheap as possible but I also don't think it should be made so expensive that no one can afford it. So, yes there should be more regulation around how animals are raised and slaughtered in order to prevent cruelty and that will likely increase prices of meat and I'm ok with that. We should also do more to make sure that small producers aren't forced out of business by large factory farming interests since that's what's driving this race to the bottom and degradation of conditions.
> turns out that if you do that excessively
That's plainly a strawman argument. I didn't say we should be 100% carnivorous or eat excessive quantities of meat or spend 100% of our time hunting. It's also an argument against being 100% vegetarian by the way so you might want to be careful tossing it around.
> There is no screaming to be heard at the supermarket checkout
If your goal is to kill the animal humanely then there shouldn't be any screaming in the slaughterhouse either. As I said above, there are certainly many slaughterhouses where the animals are mistreated but I don't support this and think it should be regulated against.
The obvious answer is because they are tasty and people are used to it and it is ingrained in the very culture (cooking, traditional holiday meals etc) of pretty much every country I know of. Those are some of the strongest forces working in unison. Seems very unlikely hamankind will ever move off animal based diets.
middle-class american urban yuppies who've given up on McD a few months ago and now insist the rest of us should follow suit? not the enemy, just their useful idiots.
global elites with their private jets, yachts, islands and castles preaching to us unwashed masses to tighten our belts and lower our expectations as they bring about the end to our peace and prosperity? yes, absolutely, they are my enemy - and yours, if you can see past your nose and realize these people don't give a flying fuck about the environment, social justice and all the other bullshit.
> global elites with their private jets, yachts, islands and castles
People were harping against meat long before the elites opened their mouths about it. For all you know, the elites' suggestion to eat insects is a ploy to get people like you to do the exact opposite. Maybe YOU'RE the useful idiot.
