Google is an advertising company. Their productivity apps exist for one reason --- privacy invasion/data collection --- in support of their advertising objectives.
Using Google apps for anything other than advertising is like going to a medical doctor for a toothache. You might receive something that temporarily eases the pain but the root problem remains largely unsolved.
Do you think Google is reading the contents of drive documents? I struggle to make the connection between those kinds of business apps and advertising.
Perhaps they get some usage data of how/when people work?
I do believe much of what Google does (i.e. chrome) is to benefit their ads business, but I think it's a bit cynical to think that's true of every product they have.
FWIW I've worked at companies that use both Microsoft + Google suites (mostly drive + calendar + mail) and generally preferred Google's. I did not have any issues like the post mentions.
>Do you think Google is reading the contents of drive documents?
It literally says in gdrive tos that they read the docs, yes they do .
"Our automated systems analyse your content to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customised search results, and spam and malware detection,"
They actually removed the statement that you're quoting from the current version of the Google Drive terms of service. (The old version you're quoting is still available online, but it's under an "/archive" URL.)
That being said, I've read through all the Google Terms of Service online, and I can't actually figure out whether they still use Google Drive content for customized search results.
Do you think Google is reading the contents of drive documents?
Google's definition of "reading" involves human eyeballs.
Do they have algorithms in place that can collect personal data from drive documents?
Most likely.
It's been proven that they scan your mail for every scrap of available info such as web links and purchases receipts. Why would they treat other documents any differently when there is no legal requirement to do so?
Google’s Ad Products have - over the last few years, in the pursuit of “smartness” —gotten progressively dumber and harder to use, making all sorts of bad and often unchangable decisions on your behalf, and having really awful interfaces for trying to make any sorts of edits and apply them anywhere. And I say this as a technical marketer. Facebook’s ads products are a godsend compared to the awful nonsense that is Google Ads.
> Notwithstanding any other term of the Agreement, Google will not process Customer Data for Advertising purposes or serve Advertising in the Services.
Will you be retracting your claims, or are you planning on moving the goal posts instead?
We don’t show you personalized ads based on your content from Drive, Gmail, or Photos.
LOL! Everything from Google must be carefully and legally parsed.
No, they don't show ads *from Drive, GMail or Photos* --- these services are ad free. They do show ads *from the web* --- based on your personal profile and data collected from multiple sources. Nothing here rules out using data from Drive, Gmail and Photos to profile you.
It's been proven that they scan, collect and save purchase receipts and access/scan web links contained in Gmail documents. Why do you suppose they do this?
Regarding your *Workspace Premier* terms --- The document you quote is not current but paid services do have different TOS. This is not a major source of their income.
> No, they don't show ads from Drive, GMail or Photos --- these services are ad free. They do show ads from the web --- based on your personal profile and data collected from multiple sources. Nothing here rules out using data from Drive, Gmail and Photos to profile you.
Are you really seriously claiming that there's some kind of ambiguity in "Google does not collect, scan, or use your data in Google Workspace services for advertising purposes"?
If you're going to argue that "advertising purposes" wouldn't cover using the data for ad targeting, they have text explicitly addressing that too:
Your [Drive] content is safe, private, and never used for ad personalization
> The document you quote is not current but paid services do have different TOS
True, sorry about that! The current version states:
Google will not process Customer Data for Advertising purposes or serve Advertising in the Services.
But given that it's the same text, I don't really see how this helps your case.
> This is not a major source of their income.
Why would that matter?
> It's been proven that they scan, collect and save purchase receipts and access/scan web links contained in Gmail documents. Why do you suppose they do this?
Pretty obviously the receipt thing was due to it being a really convenient feature for Gmail users. I used it multiple times, and was sad when it was removed due to the outcry. For scanning web links, the even more obvious reason is to scan the links for malware, phishing pages, etc. But I am confident that these things are not for any kind of advertising purposes. And so should you: it was after all you who set the bar at whether using the data for ads was disallowed by the privacy policy or TOS.
When you get to set the standard of proof, and then refuse to accept that proof when provided, it doesn't really feel like you're acting in good faith here.
But I am confident that these things are not for any kind of advertising purposes.
When your proof is "I trust Google", it doesn't really feel like you're acting in good faith here.
It costs Google time and money to scan your email and extract and store your purchase receipts --- and you think their only motivation was to be nice? Wow!
But assuming your interpretation agrees with Google's legal team ... where do you suppose they get all the info needed to profile users and deliver "personalized" ads --- which is how they make 90% of their money?
Presumably from applications like Search, Chrome, YouTube, Android, Ads, Play Store, Assistant, Translate, News, Maps, Podcasts, Shopping, Google TV, Discover, etc. (That list based on the sources that show up for me https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols; your mileage will probably vary.)
But not from the productivity apps, which is what you were complaining about.
> When your proof is "I trust Google", it doesn't really feel like you're acting in good faith here.
What do you think the reactions from various regulators around the world would be if these statements turned out to be blatant lies like you suggest? Lying about it would be really, really stupid when the option is to say nothing.
If you don't trust the TOS and the privacy policy on such crystal clear statements, why did you suggest that as the proof you wanted to see?
Presumably from applications like Search, Chrome...
And presumably Google Docs and Google Sheets --- which are productivity apps.
Basically any of their "free" services.
What do you think the reactions from various regulators around the world would be if these statements turned out to be blatant lies like you suggest?
They're not blatant lies. I showed you above, Google is perfectly OK with you interpreting things in a way that differs from the legally plausible argument they will put forth in a legal setting.
Your TOS quotes are from their paid "premier" products. These are not their only productivity apps.
> And presumably Google Docs and Google Sheets --- which are productivity apps.
No. I did not include them in that list for two reasons. First, as has been demonstrated Google is incredibly explicit about data on Drive (which Docs and Sheets are) not being used for ad targeting. There is no ambiguity there. Second, because those apps are not listed on that activity page. Nor are the other apps where Google is making explicit statements about the data not being used for advertising purposes, e.g. Gmail, Photos, Chat.
Again, they're pretty open about the apps whose data can be used for ad targeting. There is no misdirection there, there is no hiding of them from the list of data that they have. If you were correct and they were just blatantly lying, why not do it for all products?
> Your TOS quotes are from their paid "premier" products. These are not their only productivity apps.
The initial submission was about Workspace, so of course I linked to those. But when you moved the goalposts, I posted additional links that were about consumer services (Gmail, Drive). But here's one more. The page for with the account privacy settings says the following, whether you have ads personalization turned on or off, and even for a consumer account:
The link you included seems to have nothing to do with our claim that Google is using data from their office apps for advertising. It looks like it was about people explicitly granting vetted third-party apps access to the content of their email. What's the connection?
The connection is that they aren't legally prevented from using any data that passes through their servers --- and in some cases allowing others to use it too.
Thank you for saying that. We will have to band together and fight against Google. I think we should have a separate category on HN to expose Google's evil doings.
Using Google apps for anything other than advertising is like going to a medical doctor for a toothache. You might receive something that temporarily eases the pain but the root problem remains largely unsolved.