Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I checked it out and the number seems about right(like up to 2x but not too much). So, to beat an airplane on fuel efficiency you need to be at least 2 persons on an extremely fuel efficient small car.

Surely, the actual costs calculations will need to include the infra and operational costs however if you check the energy consumption per passenger per distance[0], rail transport is always on the more efficient side of things.

Unless the infrastructure and operational costs of trains are higher than airplanes, I don't see how airplanes can be more competitive. Is the rail infrastructure that much expensive?

Maybe the argument can be made about convenience but on efficiency, trains look more efficient.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport



Trains are more efficient, but flights only do the most traveled routes generally, which is why they're usually booked out afaik. The same can't be said about trains usually, as they're also doing the outlying routes

It makes flying seem more competitive then it actually is, as trains usually aren't booked relative how much your transportation cost and instead the overall cost to also enable these almost empty routine runs


Why don't the trains just stop doing the empty runs on the outlying routes, then?


Because trains are considered an essential public service.

The people with only outlying routes nearby would be stuck without public transport, which is unacceptable. Commercial train companies only get contracts for the busy intercity routes if they also provide service on the outlying routes.


> Is the rail infrastructure that much expensive?

Building and maintaining one runway at point A and one at point B is obviously much easier than building and maintaining a railroad between them.


Is it? It's not that obvious to me at least. I suspect that it's more like function of distance, speed, landscape.

Airports also tend to be at the middle of nowhere, IMHO you need to incorporate the cost of building and maintaining the infrastructure needed to get somewhere from that nowhere.


Well, there are lots of other factors, but the general reasoning holds.

If you have ten airports, you have 10 * (10 + 1) / 2 = 55 airlines. If you have 10 train stations, you have only as many rail lines as you're willing to build, which means countries end up spending most of the effort and money on lines connecting major city centers.

Also, if you have an international airport, you're connected to every capital city of the world.

The logistic advantages of air travel are huge. Kerosene will need to get a lot more expensive before these advantages lose out.


Sure, there are advantages but advantages are not one sided. It's not like choosing between Netflix plans where you pay 9.99$ for 2 screen and HD streaming and you can upgrade to 14.99$ package with 4 screens and UHD streaming. It's more like choosing between Netflix and Amazon Prime. You might get fewer options to watch but you also get one day delivery and some really nice content too. Often, you end up having both.

Also, trains can switch lines, disconnect, run on the same line back to back etc.

Just look at the Europe railways map: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:High_Speed_Railroad_...

I suspect, with some standardisation and automation, you can end up having very good point-to-point travel options by train. Even better than airlines maybe. The current inefficiencies could be due to poor management and weak integrations. Can you imagine how great could be to have Europe and Asia wide rail network where automated carriages and rail switching systems coordinate to achieve travel from any train station to any train station?


a plane also can make 4 round trips in the time the train takes to make 1, but on the other side, a train can move 500-600 people while the plane moves 160.


I bet there is a good bit of mandatory service. You cant just periodically cut off a few thousand from their job here and there just because it satisfies investors.

The usual tracks either connect big cities or they run between urban centers and less populated areas. IOW run between every seat taken and almost empty.




Consider applying for YC's Winter 2026 batch! Applications are open till Nov 10

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: