But here is the thing, typically we consider their agency when formulating a response. We would response more harshly to an agent willingly and knowingly commits acts that we deem inappropriate, and we would be less harsh against one that has no other recourse.
By ascribing Russia as this entity with no agency, one gives pretext to the softening and appeasement that they do not deserve.
Not trying to hijack this thread, but I think that logic doesn't hold, because the US Monroe doctrine is backed up by a lot of "inappropriate" actions. There are no angels here, except in each side's propaganda.
And regardless, I'm not convinced Russia can even carry out its current program in Ukraine. Those suggesting "appeasement" will "embolden" Putin to go on a wider campaign of war through Europe haven't justified the rationale for how that would even happen. And if it came to that (basically another World War), those making that claim have to justify how a World War later is worse than a World War now, which is often, though not always, the implied anti-"appeasement" approach.
> There are no angels here, except in each side's propaganda.
Sure, pick your poison. This time I'll have a shot of NATO. I may be in the mood for something different next time.
> And regardless, I'm not convinced Russia can even carry out its current program in Ukraine. Those suggesting "appeasement" will "embolden" Putin to go on a wider campaign of war through Europe haven't justified the rationale for how that would even happen.
Just brinksmanship with nukes I guess? I don't even necessarily care about emboldening. I just believe that they should walk out of this limping. Harder the better.
It's hard to militarily inflict a limp on an opponent who may use nukes, without creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. And NATO policy has always been that first-strike on nuclear-armed opponents is always an option. Election debates in the UK have hinged on whether the candidate will commit to first-strike, with staunch establishment criticism if the answer is not a clear "yes". China officially forecloses the idea of any first-strike, and the SU did too in the 80s, but that was reneged on by Russia when it broke up in the 90s. Just in the last 4 years, the US head of state referred to using them, relatively transparently. The point is that it is shockingly common to reserve the nuclear option, and even to highlight it. I am absolutely not saying "therefore it's not that bad" -- quite the opposite, I'm saying that we should be glad that nations seem don't have a knee-jerk reaction to such psychotic statements from their opponents, and we should follow suit. Let cooler heads prevail.
And economic sanctions can be just a slow version of carpet bombing. The figures are disputed, but some claim hundreds of thousands of children alone died under the Iraq sanctions. I haven't read enough to judge the issue, but the official position was that even if true, it "is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it." I wouldn't support that kind of logic in trying to inflict a limp either.
So my main point is that it's hard to come up with any "harder the better" approach that isn't suicidal or pure cruelty for ordinary Ukrainians and Russians, and bad for NATO member citizens too. I think the invasion is evil too, but the punishment talk is just empty talk -- everyone's getting punished pretty hard right now as it is.
By ascribing Russia as this entity with no agency, one gives pretext to the softening and appeasement that they do not deserve.
In this case, Russia deserves none.