Patreon is not a "payment gateway", it's a mechanism for people to support creative activities, as the original term "patron of the arts" means.

Funding military weapons steps on some very complicated lines about what people are allowed to spend their money on. So saying "what private citizens do with their money is up to them." is only true as far as the law says.

Sure, but Patreon was just fine with this until two weeks ago. They should either work on their acceptance criteria or admit that they are in fact a money transmitter. They very selectively enforce this and that is why it makes them look bad because right now is the worst possible time to close this account.

> If you set yourself up as a payment gateway people will use you as a payment gateway.

They're not a payment gateway for everything and anything. They can choose what activity they don't want to facilitate and they have.

> And what private citizens do with their money is up to them.

It's not. There are numerous restrictions on what private citizens can do with their money.

> There are numerous restrictions on what private citizens can do with their money.

Yes, but those restrictions are not typically arbitrated by commercial entities but by the law.

That might be a norm that the world _should_ have but it’s not one that actually exists currently.

We demand that payment gateways prevent fraud, prevent the sale of criminal or objectionable materials, prevent money laundering and prevent sending money to nations and individuals under sanction.

Having a policy of not supporting weapons purchases is on that spectrum. Just claiming people can do what they want with their money just isn’t true.

I'm perfectly capable of transferring funds to Ukranian bank accounts from where I'm sitting, my bank doesn't get a say in that.

If I were to try to send money to ISIS or some other known terrorist organization they would surely step in under AMT laws, but the Ukranian defense force is last I checked not on that list (Though I'm sure Putin would love that.)

https://www.dnb.nl/en/sector-information/supervision-laws-an...

So effectively Patreon is carrying Putin's water here.

Your bank absolutely gets a say in that. They can refuse to transfer those funds for effectively any reason and will if they think that those funds are being transferred for any number of proscribed actions.

Those actions need not be official sanctions either. They can refuse to do business with another bank at their discretion.

I agree that it’s a very bad look for Patreon but it’s pretty business as usual.

> Your bank absolutely gets a say in that. They can refuse to transfer those funds for effectively any reason and will if they think that those funds are being transferred for any number of proscribed actions.

I think I covered that by linking to the charter that governs this.

> Those actions need not be official sanctions either. They can refuse to do business with another bank at their discretion.

They'd have to have a pretty good reason or I would have an excellent opportunity to sue. Capricious interference with the flow of capital is frowned upon.

> I agree that it’s a very bad look for Patreon but it’s pretty business as usual.

Patreon effectively joined Putin. There is no way they will whitewash this.

You linked to the charter of what is disallowed, not what is a right.

I’ll concede I don’t know the Netherlands banking regulations so perhaps you do have a right to send electronic wires but what you linked doesn’t outline that.

In the US the cfpb regulates consumer rights when sending international transfers. The rights include disclosures about fees and fx and processes for adjudication of disputes but you do not have a right to send a wire.

And what private companies allow is up to them.