Music is about discipline. "Talent" is more or less a multiplier, but is useless without discipline in the first place. Needing "talent" (to be very good at it) is a myth. You don't have to be the best in the world to be very good at something.

There is no secret. It just takes time and work to get good at an instrument or producing.

edit: clarity

I mostly agree with you, but with some changes (applies not just to music but any other field). Discipline is the multiplier on talent, not the other way round. "Talent" is most definitely not a myth - to take it to an egregious example, no amount of discipline would ever make me play center in the NBA or piano in Carnegie Hall. But... that's ok.

I should specify there's a difference of being in the top percentage of people in a field, and just being very good at that field. With sports, physical attributes are more important but even if you're not gonna be in the NBA you can still be quite good, etc.

I don't see music as really competitive in that sense though because everyone has different tastes. Once you put in the time and work to learn to produce or play an instrument, it then comes down to creativity and networking really.

Again, I mostly do agree with you, especially as you get to more creative fields. I think what I would rephrase as is: given my genetic makeup, discipline is more likely to yield benefits using openAI Jukebox rather than guitar or piano.

On this topic, if you have not already, one of the best movies I have seen in last couple years: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11423784/ (is on netflix in the US).

"think what I would rephrase as is: given my genetic makeup, discipline is more likely to yield benefits using openAI Jukebox rather than guitar or piano."

I don't agree with this sort of sentiment at all. I'm not talking about benefits as in being in the top % of people in a field- I don't care about that. I'm talking about getting very good and playing with people and/or earning income. Anyone can achieve that with time and work.

The best players that I know all study quite diligently and play/make music literally all the time. They're getting their 10,000 hours in and then some. I'm speaking here as a guitar & bass player but this applies to really any instrument.

Unless you physically or mentally cannot play e.g. the guitar, if you studied it diligently for several years, you would be better than a lot of people who haphazardly study it. By 1-2 years you could already be sitting in and doing small gigs (for bass, a lot sooner, since there's a glut of of amateur guitarists). By 3-4 years of again, diligent study, you would be quite decent/respectable. As far as "making it", that comes down to the above + socializing with musicians + interpersonal skills like being on time, etc.

"Genetic makeup" or "talent" have absolutely zero to do with that unless it's literally impacting your ability to play or practice. All that's needed is discipline to study correctly (and motivation, which goes without saying). And a great many people study poorly.

There are amusical people in this world for whom making music (ie keeping pitch, keeping rhythm) is difficult in such a basic way that it’s hard to explain to others who just “get it.” Sort of being dyslexic I suppose. I can tell you from personal experience 2-3 years was not enough for me me on the violin but maybe 4 would have been. Oh well maybe it’s the “diligence” I didn’t have enough of. Anyway- I only disagree with you in the absolutes… generally your formula holds.

I dunno.

I started out playing punk rock and frankly if I listen to the stuff I was doing in the 90s, it sucked. My timing and pitch was pretty bad. Like, as bad as anyone including the people I know who say they are a-musical.

I've gotten measurably better.

I don't believe that this is a genetic thing. Rather, I just like goofing around with music so much that, over the decades, I've developed much better timing and pitch as well as my larger musical vocabulary.

I cannot speak for other people, but it's pretty obvious that while I am a pretty good musician now, I was not born with those abilities... they are the product of many, many hours of joyful exercise. If people can't find joy in sucking really bad at things (which is super helpful) that's probably something that can be overcome.

In the course of decades, unless someone has a severe and measurable impairment, the minor differences in people evens out to the point where I don't feel it makes much sense at all to bring genetics or even personal disposition into the discussion.

Added for clarity: folks should be able to make music however feels fun for them, as far as I am concerned.

I really like self-generating sounds created by modular synths. If coding is fun and feels rewarding for folks, my feeling is that AI or whatever is a wholly legit thing. Have fun and keep at it.

Thanks!

Truth! Im a professional musician and in my experience, "naturally talented" generally means "enjoys practicing". No one produces moving music without practice.