When taking office for his second term – which coincidentally took place during the Hårsfjärden incident – Prime Minister Olof Palme appointed Lennart Bodström as foreign minister in his government. Bodström, previously a trade union chairman, was rather inexperienced in foreign policy, leaving Palme, no doubt, with the most important aspects of foreign policy. In 1985, Bodström attended a dinner arranged by Swedish journalists at one of Sweden’s largest daily newspapers, the liberal Dagens Nyheter. The journalists represented several different right-wing newspapers. According to the journalists, during a question-and-answer session, Bodström made it clear that he “did not believe we had any submarine incursions, and if we did, they were not Soviet ones.”[4] When Bodström’s opinion was made public in newspapers, the center-right party leaders in the Swedish Parliament demanded the foreign minister’s resignation. Palme, however, defended Bodström at least through that autumn’s election, and, after a short period as minister of education, he was appointed ambassador to neighboring Norway.
>>Bodström made it clear that he “did not believe we had any submarine incursions, and if we did, they were not Soviet ones.”
Many politicians WANTED there to be Soviet uboats so they can uphold founding off the army (it's just better when Sweden has the same enemy/fears as the US has).
There i corrected it for you.
>One washed up on some rocks 5 year prior to your quote
Yes that's a fantastic story if you dig a bit deeper:
Magnus Hjort, deputy director of Sweden’s new “psychological defence” agency:
> We can’t rule out that Sweden can be attacked.
> Authoritarian states have for years been trying to influence elections. The difference today is that through social media you have better opportunities to influence people. That’s why we need to have the capacity to monitor for an interference in our democracy.
> What we have seen lately is that the security situation has deteriorated in our part of the world. It has become more tense.
> We have to have something to analyse, to identify this and to be able to counter it and that’s why we are now establishing a psychological defence agency in Sweden.
> Conflict between states will be there after this year as well. This year could become particularly nasty and difficult.
> It will have to tread very carefully on controversial issues not to create the impression of the state trying to stifle critical views. Even if it is stated in the instructions that the new agency shall promote free speech, the line is not easy to draw.
I don’t see a war being mentioned anywhere. The rhetoric is purely about the influence of authoritarian governments on elections. So the question still stands.
So a country may not defend itselve in danger? Russia has already been in war since 2014 within close proximity by invading Ukraine! That's entirely Russia's fault.
You do know that the USSR fell and a lot of those ex-ussr countries preferred the "west" and wanted to part ways from USSR / Russia? A lot of them did fyi. And other countries are having that moment.
They are free to choose what they want for their future. But i don't think many people want to replicate Russia's system.
The last 20 years of more Russia repeatedly threatened and checked responses of many countries to replicate what could/would happen in case of war. And I'm not even talking about the numerous cyber attacks yet.
The one trying to escalate things is obviously the one amassing 100 k. Troops next to their neighbor.
It's not our fault that Russia didn't foresee countries didn't want anything to do with them anymore. They don't have much to offer either except military assistance and oil/gas.
Or that they are noticing increased civilian unrest with their last USSR "autoritarian friends" where they had to step in. ( Belarus, Kazachstan).
Russia is trying to delay the inevitable.
Countries are turning away of oil/gas and Russia won't have the money anymore to maintain their expensive army ( 6% of GDP ). He literally hastened their demise because of his threats to everyone. his biggest and most lucrative clients are running away whenever possible.
Wrong argument, Nato is steered from the US, and the US has no business near russian border, bush and trump ended many deals with russia...Nato was defensive and is now misused as a aggressive UN with weapons, but it's just for the better good of humankind (at least what the us thinks it is...like buy Gas from the US not Russia).
Do you think it's a good idea if china or russia brings some weapons back to Cuba? No? Because that's exactly what Nato(aka US) does since over 15 years.
>It's not our fault that Russia didn't foresee countries didn't want anything to do with them anymore.
You are twisting facts, the US ended the nuclear missile pact with Russia, there was a deal that Nato leaves a band of country's between Russia (also called demilitarized (nato/russia) zone) the US gave a damn about it. If everything gets canceled from one side, it's no wonder what the other side thinks...and fun-fact it's good for the US...no so for Europe, if you bully someone until he has to defend himself...it is your fault.
You thinks it's about defending Ukraine? Hint it's not...it's about blocking a pipeline and create/refresh an old enemy for Europe.
You are ignoring the fact that Russia already invaded Ukraine. NATO hasn't done anything but being defensive.
Just like Russia was the first to tries to arm Cuba in 1960. Difference is, we are reacting to actual and consistent threats by Russia. Current situation just is another proof it's necessary.
And that NATO is obviously also the EU.
It's literally Russia that wants the US involved, since he wants to speak with Biden.
Russia made it US business, just like they want China involved to make a counter argument against NATO.
Ps. Because of Russia 's previous actions, i highly doubt anything with that related is going through.
Putin is just using his leverage while he still has it.
Europe is now buying US shale because of it ( = Russian actions). I may hope the pipeline never gets used.
And as a EU citizen where the main port just got hacked, i want to move from Russian gas much faster. I don't care about the costs and short term problems.
Ps. The treaty expired and is now "new start". You are free to point me to where the "demilitarized zone" section is :)
Like Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam..Korea...stop starting wars for your own good and tell everyone it's for world-peace and democracy...it's bs and you know it.
>Putin is just using his leverage while he still has it.
Same could be said about the whole US and Europa, western world-domination is at a breaking point.
>Europe is now buying US shale because of it ( = Russian actions). I may hope the pipeline never gets used.
That's exactly what the US wants...but the undrinkable water will no be in Russia...cheers, and the Ukraine....no pipeline use for Russia to Europa gas too, Ukraine looses Russia looses...exactly what the US wants (selling expensive gas...btw second biggest gas exporter for the US is...wait...RUSSIA, so the US buys cheap gas from Russia and sells expensive one to Europa...what a stupid Union)
>And as a EU citizen where the main port just got hacked
EU Mainport? Oh got hacked...well that has to be russia N.Korea or at least china...nonono my dear no false flag allowed. Russia has so much to win when europe hates them right?...a bit logic would do good to every EU-Citizen....
The shield is only to destroy incoming Syrian missles. It's defensive.
> Western world domination
You think i care? I care about trade. That's literally already what the EU internally does and why i support getting poorer neighboring countries ( Who are friendly) richer.
I prefer democracies though.
> Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam..Korea.
You need 70 years of timeline to cover that? Russia send troops to more countries in the last year too kill civilians.
Nice whataboutism though. But kinda off topic on that point.
> That's exactly what the US wants..
I want to trade with friends, not a bully. While we haven't finalized a deal with US yet, we already reduced gas imports:
The more expensive it gets, the higher priority it receives, the more viable it's alternatives become and the faster innovation ( or implementing costly decisions) could hasten it's demise.
Logical thinking 101 ftw.
Humans are great at fixing big problems that suddenly present itselve. I want it on top of the table and it's happening thanks to Russia.
Short term, i would improve regasification capabilities for LNG could be a solution. With some luck by next year. Buying more LNG from other parties ( eg. Australia) could be beneficial too, since it's currently underused.
> Stupid union
The "stupid union" which Russia wants to stop expanding because many countries prefer it. Not forced into it by military action/regime.
Whatever floats your boat man.
> False flag
I didn't even claim it's Russia. Plenty of proof that Russia is a main actor hacking our systems in general.
Russia could use some logical cause and effect logic.
>The shield is only to destroy incoming Syrian missles. It's defensive.
Yes nuclear wapons against syrian rockets....sounds plausible.
>You think i care? I care about trade.
Ah yes you can have that with china definitely
>I want to trade with friends,
The US are not friends, your are pretty naive to think another country is a friend to another one, there is no such thing as friendship in international diplomacy.
>The "stupid union" which Russia wants to stop expanding because many countries prefer it.
They don't have anything against europe, but something against a union steered by the us to hold both (Russia and Europe) down.
>I didn't even claim it's Russia.
Why then even mentioning it.
>Russia could use some logical cause and effect logic.
Not logical...that's why i said probable false flag.
> That was the missle defense system. You seem to be talking about the 'nuclear sharing treaty' which will probably retreat from Turkeye as relations aren't as they were.
> I said trade preferrable with democracies.
> US are friends. Discussing about things is part of international diplomacy. If you want to go back, you just need to check WW2. They are a lot of joint missions were we support the US and vica versa. I'm not saying it's perfect, since that's not possible in reality.
The one who is not friends, is the one that kills ( + attempts to kill) people in a EU country with Plutonium as a deterrent for others - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1038914/ ( must watch actually)
> Ofc Russia has something against EU. EU has gone without war within 80 miles of Moscow. That's exactly what Russia hates and wants to deter, additionally Ukraine is very close to Russia and would be a giant PITA for their naval fleet. Those things have nothing to do with US relations, but has everything todo with countries favoring the EU over Russia.
> Mentioned because it probably IS Russia. I didn't claim it's a certainty. But that's Russia's problem, since they are the main agressor in cyber threats in almost all confirmed cases. One of the possible defenses against malware is literally installing the "Russian language/crylic keyboard" - https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/05/adding-a-russ...
"Probable" false flag isn't what that means. It's probably just like in almost all other cases. A Russian cyber-agressor concerning malware. I'm not going to post here in 1-2 months when we know it for a fact.
PS. I'm curious about where you're from? I already mentioned myselve being a member of the EU ( fyi: Belgium) - ( I'm actually curious where your resentment comes from and have some underlying context )
Look i stop here you twist facts until it's a moebius loop.
>kills ( + attempts to kill) people in a EU country with Plutonium as a deterrent for others
Yeah traitors(for russians)....the US makes that even with NON-US Citizens (Assange), and alleged terrorist without a court case on cuban ground because it would be illegal on US-ground (Guantanamo), again you tell everyone how bad one side is but completely leave out the criticizing party...bit shameful no? And hey let's not start with that pile of shit Belgian-History (and present) is.
> I'm actually curious where your resentment comes
It's not resentment, but i hate false/fake-news and propaganda and especially if history gets twisted to have a good argument like you do (the US good friends in WW2 but completely forgets about Russia...it's disgusting TBH)
US didn't kill Assange obviously. He's also not extradicted yet and not in the US. He is in prison for leaking US governement secrets ( but outside the US), those things are still illegal fyi. It was clearly known for him from the start that it could have a huge impact.
Being in the election against Putin and be poisoned by Plutonium because of just that, is obviously multiple levels worse.
Eg. US literally had multiple planes bombarding their country for terrorism as a direct cause of many things.
Russia was also under direct attack of Germany. It was in their benefit to deter Germany, US/Canada was not under attack.
What would be the current shit show of Belgium? Talking about 200 years ago as an argument is clear whataboutism. I don't blame anything on current Germany either ( and we have joint memorials in Ypres for example), but if you look at current attempts of what you're talking about and try to blame. You should again check what Russia is doing today ( and not 200 years ago).
>He is in prison for leaking US governement secrets ( but outside the US), those things are still illegal fyi
No it's not, i can leak any secret from another country, there is no law that forbids leaking secrets from other countrys (good journalism would be otherwise impossible)...again you try to be smart but instead you are uneducated.
There seems to be a lot of very basic ( and known) concepts that you don't seem to understand? Let me educate you a bit, perhaps you can connect the dots ( correctly) this time:
1) Espionage act of 1917 => illegal to spread confidential information.
2) Extradition => laws between countries for requesting prisoners or asking for their arrest.
3) Journalist are protected under "press freedom". They do need to redact sensitive information which Assange didn't do.
You are correct that good journalism isn't possible without 'Press freedom' and 'Press freedom' does not exist in Russia for example.
> About Belgium:
You're literally talking about the embargo that was lifted in good faith ( and that was abused by Libya though), so a legit sale and a controlled training environment (mentioned in the article)?
Lol. What a whataboutism ( again)
Ps. I only sell Belgian beers online, to answer another whataboutism and weak attempt to a personal attack.
Not many of your points seem to remain though. Bonne chance autrement.
Gosh you don't get it, sure it's illegal to spread confidential information AS A US-CITIZEN ABOUT THE US, it's a Law for US Citizens, the US cannot make a world-law if you still don't get it.
>Extradition
It's because of alleged hacking and instigation of a US-Citizen (Manning) and not because of spreading US confidential information, please educate yourself.
>Journalist are protected under "press freedom"
Journalist is NOT a protected Job-Title (aka everyone can be it...and yes Assange too), and most journalist would tell you that Assange was more journalist then most so called professionals. And again "press-freedom" is not a World-Right/Law but different from country to country..and non existent in others.
Not often have i seen such a uneducated and childish worldview as yours...it's nearly comical.
> communists Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, Cablegate whistleblower Chelsea Manning, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.
The rest is just repeating what i said.
Except you call Assange a journalist. If he would have redacted names, he probably would have been in a lot less trouble ( just repeating myself again).
To be honest, a lot of what Assange leaked should have been done. But he was a literal idiot leaking names unredacted and endangering people.
It was literally real journalists that made Assange his previous leaks ok for publishing, Assange just had to forward documents.
Other countries should probably follow suit. Where I live the levels of Russian financed misinformation is intense and surreal. I don't mean just social media trolls which FB is awash with but also paid operatives working on the ground and in communities and instigating against vaccines, NATO, EU and other topics key to Kremlin backed propaganda.
https://www.php.isn.ethz.ch/lory1.ethz.ch/collections/coll_i...
>>A Split on the Domestic Front
When taking office for his second term – which coincidentally took place during the Hårsfjärden incident – Prime Minister Olof Palme appointed Lennart Bodström as foreign minister in his government. Bodström, previously a trade union chairman, was rather inexperienced in foreign policy, leaving Palme, no doubt, with the most important aspects of foreign policy. In 1985, Bodström attended a dinner arranged by Swedish journalists at one of Sweden’s largest daily newspapers, the liberal Dagens Nyheter. The journalists represented several different right-wing newspapers. According to the journalists, during a question-and-answer session, Bodström made it clear that he “did not believe we had any submarine incursions, and if we did, they were not Soviet ones.”[4] When Bodström’s opinion was made public in newspapers, the center-right party leaders in the Swedish Parliament demanded the foreign minister’s resignation. Palme, however, defended Bodström at least through that autumn’s election, and, after a short period as minister of education, he was appointed ambassador to neighboring Norway.
>>Bodström made it clear that he “did not believe we had any submarine incursions, and if we did, they were not Soviet ones.”